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[PetaPixel] $5,660 Mac Pro Crushed in Photoshop Test by $1,530 PC with AMD Ryzen - Page 11

post #101 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post


It is actually a Unix based OS and your sig rig is 100% compatible OOB with a popular bootloader that we won't speak of here.

I'm not sure how close it is to a current unix OS.
And my sig is actually a mac pro, so yeah, I have no doubt it will be compatible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike395 View Post

I agree that the Mac Pro a bad deal in 2017 and should be lower if it were to be competitive, but some people suggesting they should slash 3/4 of the price because you can build a PC for 3/4 of the price just seems silly to me. Apple is never going to try to compete for the attention of people who buy their own components at the best price possible and assemble a machine themselves. If anything they should be compared with other pre-builts (which they'd still be in a bad position in in this case, although not by as much as comparing to building yourself).

Apple will not slash 3/4 of the price, because it is not a similar hardware.
If the guy changed all specs for a workstation class ECC supporting motherboard, use ECC memory, use a workstation GPU, than I would say ok, he wins.
But he didn't. He pretty much used a gaming PC to show CPU performance, but ignored all the added features that a workstation GPU adds to photoshop and the like. He also based it on a single benchmark which only test the CPU, but not more.
This is also the same guy who built a workstation computer, and forgot to put in it a workstation GPU or ECC memory in another video.
Edited by Defoler - 4/12/17 at 5:11am
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post #102 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

It is Apple's fault for selling an outdated system for such an enormous price.

If you get scammed while buying a car because you know nothing about cars people won't blame you, they will blame the seller. You are not expected to take up a mechanics course just to understand car technology, nor are you expected to be a computer expert when you by a PC. Apple sell not because of great hardware but because of the logo on the device.

Unfortunately in this world nobody will blame apple, intel, nvidia, amd, etc, to not be fair about the pricing using the people ignorance to make profit. It work when you deal with your car reseller and when you speak about with your friend, to give a bad feedback, so maybe the re-seller would step back. I don't think if i write a mail to apple about his price, it will even answer me.

We passed long time ago the point where you can say, this item cost X to produce + X for the R&D, this is the real cost and this this the company margin.

Now people buy stuff without knowing anyhow how it is made, how much it cost to build + R&D and what they pay for.

So unfortunately at this point against the big company you should blame the consumer, because you can't nothing against the big company! I would dream a day where people understand that the knowledge evict big company dream profit! Simply because you didn't buy their product anymore!

I would be happy if we came back in the old times, when i would decide to bought something expensive, i known it was well done with the aim to be up-gradable and user friendly, no matter how much i paid. Not the case nowadays if i bought the same expensive stuff now!

You will agree with me on this simplest fact: if you bought something based on his brand, without reviewing the others possibilities, your ignorance (who not know) is screwing you and benefits to big brands!
Edited by Wimpzilla - 4/12/17 at 6:48am
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post #103 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

And my sig is actually a mac pro, so yeah, I have no doubt it will be compatible.
I meant your "main system" wink.gif

Feel like this needs to be reposted again and again since it is going over most reader's heads - you really can't buy/build a similarly spec'd model to the current Mac Pro at it's current price (or back when it came out) unless, you know, you own the means of production:
Warning: Data can be offensive to predispositions! (Click to show)

HP Z2 G3 (single mobile GPU, but smaller):


Maxed out Corsair One, $2599 (single GPU, quad vs hex core, no ECC, similarly tiny and more modern, though): http://www.corsair.com/en-us/corsair-one-pro-compact-gaming-pc-gtx-1080-ti-na

Z440 (lesser GPU, but greater CPU):


Z640 (equivalent GPU but with more VRAM (D700 upgrade for Mac Pro is $200), lesser CPU IPC but more modern):


I'm no fan of the trashcan, but, just sayin'[/quote]

15% cheaper (better GPUs than the Pro, though), 208% larger:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1660 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($385.00 @ Newegg Marketplace)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus ASUS Z9PA-U8 ATX Server Motherboard ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($276.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($128.88 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 256GB PCI-E Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card ($1379.90)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2547.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-12 02:45 EDT-0400

Edit: Here's an x99 build for good measure:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2620 V3 2.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($402.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($159.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM 16GB (4 x 4GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($180.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 256GB PCI-E Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card ($1379.90)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2500.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-12 15:00 EDT-0400
Edited by claes - 4/12/17 at 12:00pm
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post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I meant your "main system" wink.gif

Feel like this needs to be reposted again and again since it is going over most reader's heads - you really can't buy/build a similarly spec'd model to the current Mac Pro at it's current price (or back when it came out) unless, you know, you own the means of production:
Warning: Data can be offensive to predispositions! (Click to show)
HP Z2 G3 (single mobile GPU, but smaller):


Maxed out Corsair One, $2599 (single GPU, quad vs hex core, no ECC, similarly tiny and more modern, though): http://www.corsair.com/en-us/corsair-one-pro-compact-gaming-pc-gtx-1080-ti-na

Z440 (lesser GPU, but greater CPU):


Z640 (equivalent GPU but with more VRAM (D700 upgrade for Mac Pro is $200), lesser CPU IPC but more modern):


I'm no fan of the trashcan, but, just sayin'



Now lets swap in a Ryzen 6 core. You know since the OP compared it to Ryzen 7.
Edited by budgetgamer120 - 4/12/17 at 12:40pm
post #105 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberrero View Post

If the mac was 30% more expensive and offered 20% less performance, I could buy this argument. But when it costs 3x as much and offers 50% less performance, it just doesn't fly. I think serious people are going to start using hackintoshes at this point if they need to run mac software. Even in VMWare.

Hackintosh for work, paid projects?

Not a chance.

People who buy workstations intend to keep them for years without upgrading the CPU. Bleeding edge speed is never at the top of their list.
Stability, longevity and expandability are more important.

The 2013 Mac Pro failed in longevity and expandability. But it's Apple's only offering and it remains on sale.
Should it be discontinued? Yes, but let's keep consumer PCs and workstations in their respective categories.

If I compared that AMD rig to a Mac Pro running medical imaging or financial simulations, people would then say, oh the AMD PC wasn't built for that so of course the Mac would win.
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post #106 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I meant your "main system" wink.gif

Feel like this needs to be reposted again and again since it is going over most reader's heads - you really can't buy/build a similarly spec'd model to the current Mac Pro at it's current price (or back when it came out) unless, you know, you own the means of production:
Warning: Data can be offensive to predispositions! (Click to show)
HP Z2 G3 (single mobile GPU, but smaller):


Maxed out Corsair One, $2599 (single GPU, quad vs hex core, no ECC, similarly tiny and more modern, though): http://www.corsair.com/en-us/corsair-one-pro-compact-gaming-pc-gtx-1080-ti-na

Z440 (lesser GPU, but greater CPU):


Z640 (equivalent GPU but with more VRAM (D700 upgrade for Mac Pro is $200), lesser CPU IPC but more modern):


I'm no fan of the trashcan, but, just sayin'
Quote:
15% cheaper (better GPUs than the Pro, though), 208% larger:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1660 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($385.00 @ Newegg Marketplace)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus ASUS Z9PA-U8 ATX Server Motherboard ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($276.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($128.88 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 256GB PCI-E Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card ($1379.90)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2547.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-12 02:45 EDT-0400


Edit: Here's an x99 build for good measure:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2620 V3 2.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($402.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($159.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM 16GB (4 x 4GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($180.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 256GB PCI-E Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card ($1379.90)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2500.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-12 15:00 EDT-0400

For that price (a bit cheaper) I got my current mac pro about 3 years ago. And has been extremely solid including today. Zero problems, smooth performance, top notch with no needs to upgrade anything for the whole time.

The difference between the mac pro now and the system you posted here:
ECC memory
Smaller foot print
Faster cores
Full thunderbolt support and daisy chain connections
Dual lan

Comparing those two, and if I had all my tools available on the OS X, the mac pro is a better solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

Hackintosh for work, paid projects?

Not a chance.

People who buy workstations intend to keep them for years without upgrading the CPU. Bleeding edge speed is never at the top of their list.
Stability, longevity and expandability are more important.

The 2013 Mac Pro failed in longevity and expandability. But it's Apple's only offering and it remains on sale.
Should it be discontinued? Yes, but let's keep consumer PCs and workstations in their respective categories.

If I compared that AMD rig to a Mac Pro running medical imaging or financial simulations, people would then say, oh the AMD PC wasn't built for that so of course the Mac would win.

People who buy a workstation grade computer, will rarely upgrade parts. They will not mess around with it.
If it needs an upgrade, purchase a whole system.

Also if I put that AMD rig, change motherboard for ECC supporting one, put ECC memory, and replace the GPUs with workstation versions, it will make a lot more sense for workstation work.
If you have zero tolerance for slight errors over a long period of time, ECC memory is the way to go. Nothing to do really with a mac necessarily.
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post #107 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Now lets swap in a Ryzen 6 core. You know since the OP compared it to Ryzen 7.
Well, I'm not sure any current Ryzen motherboards support ECC, and it'd probably make more sense to compare HEDT to HEDT, and plainly you already know the answer and are trolling me, but to point out the obvious - yeah, you can save ~$125 going with AMD over Intel (surprise?):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($218.67 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($209.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($188.98 @ Directron)
Storage: Plextor M8Pe 256GB PCI-E Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card ($1379.90)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2374.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-12 15:51 EDT-0400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

The difference between the mac pro now and the system you posted here:
ECC memory
Smaller foot print
Faster cores
Full thunderbolt support and daisy chain connections
Dual lan
To be fair the builds I posted include ECC, Thunderbolt, and superior GPUs (more VRAM), and faster cores and more thunderbolt and dual lan could be had for a couple hundred bucks, but I hear you. The XP941 is certainly superior to the SSD I included as well.
Edited by claes - 4/12/17 at 1:18pm
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post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

OSX (or macOS as it's now called) is both a descendent of Unix and a current version of Unix.
post #109 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post


It is actually a Unix based OS and your sig rig is 100% compatible OOB with a popular bootloader that we won't speak of here.

I'm not sure how close it is to a current unix OS.
And my sig is actually a mac pro, so yeah, I have no doubt it will be compatible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike395 View Post

I agree that the Mac Pro a bad deal in 2017 and should be lower if it were to be competitive, but some people suggesting they should slash 3/4 of the price because you can build a PC for 3/4 of the price just seems silly to me. Apple is never going to try to compete for the attention of people who buy their own components at the best price possible and assemble a machine themselves. If anything they should be compared with other pre-builts (which they'd still be in a bad position in in this case, although not by as much as comparing to building yourself).

Apple will not slash 3/4 of the price, because it is not a similar hardware.
If the guy changed all specs for a workstation class ECC supporting motherboard, use ECC memory, use a workstation GPU, than I would say ok, he wins.
But he didn't. He pretty much used a gaming PC to show CPU performance, but ignored all the added features that a workstation GPU adds to photoshop and the like. He also based it on a single benchmark which only test the CPU, but not more.
This is also the same guy who built a workstation computer, and forgot to put in it a workstation GPU or ECC memory in another video.

ECC RAM costs almost the same as non-ECC RAM and Asus X79 boards support ECC RAM. Even my server's low end AMD 780 board supports ECC so using ECC as a selling point shows that you are the person Apple were aiming at to sell these overpriced systems to. While at the time the price might have been 'acceptable', it definitely is not now.

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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX8320 @ 4.5 Crosshair V (Third One) 290 Tri-X OC 16GB HyperX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Sandisk SSD Plus 240GB Toshiba 3TB Hitachi 2TB Swiftech H220-X 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 8.1/Mint Viewsonic VX2457-mhd Fuhlen L411 Slim Super Flower Golden King 650W 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Enthoo Pro G400 Super Flower 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
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post #110 of 117
The only apple products worth owning are the iPhone, iPad, and the macbook pro.
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