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DDR 3 2200 mhz @ 10 12 12 28 , low enough timing or should i try to get lower ?

post #1 of 6
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ok so i was tweaking my ram to get the best out of them on my current build, they are original 2400 mhz modules but they refuse to run at that speed no matter what on my pc so i backed them to 2200 mhz but now looking to tweak the timings

also can somebody tell me which field stands for what ? what is cas latency and what are those other timings stand for and how important are they compared to the main CL which i have set to 10
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post #2 of 6
CAS-tRCD-tRP-tRAS(-CR) is the standard format for SDRAM (which includes everything from 66MHz SDR to the fastest DDR4 and upcoming DDR5, to avoid confusion) primary timings.

Some articles on the topic of timings and what they do:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_timings

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-ram-timings/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3851/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-sdram-memory-but-were-afraid-to-ask


In general, CAS, then tRCD, then tRP, will have the most noticeable impact on performance, but this can vary a bit from platform to platform and application to application.

tRAS has a much smaller effect on performance than the other three and as a window based on other timing considerations, is generally best derived from other timings. It's my understanding that the absolute minimum tRAS that is actually functional in any situation is equal to CAS + tRCD, but there are other operations that can delay it further. In general, I find it best to set tRAS to CAS + tRCD + tRTP (a secondary timing) as a baseline and adjust from there. Setting it too low can result in instability (settings below CAS + tRCD will be ignored/auto corrected on most platforms) while setting it too high keeps the row active unnecessarily long, reducing performance.

Command rate is often listed as the fifth primary timing usually in a CRx or Tx or xT format. Valid values are 1-3 on DDR3-4 and as far as individual timings go, it can have a relatively large performance impact. On some platforms it's up there with CAS in importance. 1 is the fastest, but not all memory or memory controllers can handle it, especially at higher speeds/densities. Essentially every config that will ever be stable should be able to handle 2. I've never seen any benefit to setting command rate higher than 2.
Edited by Blameless - 4/10/17 at 10:28am
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post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

CAS-tRCD-tRP-tRAS(-CR) is the standard format for SDRAM (which includes everything from 66MHz SDR to the fastest DDR4 and upcoming DDR5, to avoid confusion) primary timings.

Some articles on the topic of timings and what they do:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_timings

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-ram-timings/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3851/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-sdram-memory-but-were-afraid-to-ask


In general, CAS, then tRCD, then tRP, will have the most noticeable impact on performance, but this can vary a bit from platform to platform and application to application.

tRAS has a much smaller effect on performance than the other three and as a window based on other timing considerations, is generally best derived from other timings. It's my understanding that the absolute minimum tRAS that is actually functional in any situation is equal to CAS + tRCD, but there are other operations that can delay it further. In general, I find it best to set tRAS to CAS + tRCD + tRTP (a secondary timing) as a baseline and adjust from there. Setting it too low can result in instability (settings below CAS + tRCD will be ignored/auto corrected on most platforms) while setting it too high keeps the row active unnecessarily long, reducing performance.

Command rate is often listed as the fifth primary timing usually in a CRx or Tx or xT format. Valid values are 1-3 on DDR3-4 and as far as individual timings go, it can have a relatively large performance impact. On some platforms it's up there with CAS in importance. 1 is the fastest, but not all memory or memory controllers can handle it, especially at higher speeds/densities. Essentially every config that will ever be stable should be able to handle 2. I've never seen any benefit to setting command rate higher than 2.

i tried to lower the timings a bit to 10 11 11 28 but it wouldn't boot , does adding voltage help with better timings ? i'm currently at 1.6v
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post #4 of 6
Tighter timings may need more voltage. Sooner or later you're likely to hit a wall, just as with clock speed. Also, try one timing at a time. If 10-12-12 is stable, try 10-12-11, 10-11-12, or even 9-12-12.

Knowing what memory ICs you have can reveal what timings they are most likely to work with when trying to tighten things up. A quick search of the memory listed in your signature system suggests that they are using Hynix MFR...which I'm not particularly experienced with (most of my good DDR3 was Samsung based). However, the stuff I've seen suggests that tRCD is hardest to tighten on them, so 10-12-11 may be the next set of timings you should try.
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post #5 of 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Tighter timings may need more voltage. Sooner or later you're likely to hit a wall, just as with clock speed. Also, try one timing at a time. If 10-12-12 is stable, try 10-12-11, 10-11-12, or even 9-12-12.

Knowing what memory ICs you have can reveal what timings they are most likely to work with when trying to tighten things up. A quick search of the memory listed in your signature system suggests that they are using Hynix MFR...which I'm not particularly experienced with (most of my good DDR3 was Samsung based). However, the stuff I've seen suggests that tRCD is hardest to tighten on them, so 10-12-11 may be the next set of timings you should try.

i tried 9 12 12 before and it didn't work bootloop

now i tried 10 12 11 27 as you suggested and it booted just fine, what do you recommend for stress testing ?

edit : found out that my kit has these memory ICs H5TC4G83MFR, but couldn't exactly know what to expect in terms of timings, people are overclocking this set of ram up to even 2600 mhz while i can't even get 2400 out of the, could it be that my processor's IMC just sucks ? because it was the exact same case on my old asrock z77 extreme 6

edit 2 : tried to do 10 12 10 27 and it would never boot, can i safely assume that this is the max my ram can do ? i didn't try to up the voltage to 1.65v to get better timings

and 2400 mhz is an absolute no go even at 1.65v

also is 10 12 11 27 a nice rounded latency or is it "inconsistent" with itself if you know what i mean
Edited by invincible20xx - 4/10/17 at 3:35pm
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post #6 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible20xx View Post

now i tried 10 12 11 27 as you suggested and it booted just fine, what do you recommend for stress testing ?

First round, Memtest86 7.30, especially test #7.

Second round, stressapptest (a Linux program sponsored by google used to test hardware)...one of the fastest/most stressful memory tests available. I simply boot to a linux live install off a flash drive (mint or lubuntu are my preferences), open a terminal, type "sudo apt-get install stressapptest", say yes at the prompt, then run "sudo stressapptest -s 3600 -W". That will run the default test with higher stress copy threads for an hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible20xx View Post

could it be that my processor's IMC just sucks ? because it was the exact same case on my old asrock z77 extreme 6

It's highly likely the IMC is a limiting factor, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible20xx View Post

also is 10 12 11 27 a nice rounded latency or is it "inconsistent" with itself if you know what i mean

There is nothing wrong with those timings, unless they prove not to work.
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i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Memory › DDR 3 2200 mhz @ 10 12 12 28 , low enough timing or should i try to get lower ?