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[Eurogamer] Project Scorpio supports FreeSync and next-gen HDMI - Page 7

post #61 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Considering they rolled back G-Sync support much farther into their past GPU stack than AMD did, I don't see it happening. Odd how you could make notion to Nvidia using G-Sync to restrict you on GPU selection when they support more cards than their counterpart. Where is the logic?

OT: FreeSync coming to console isn't some little thing and it is sad some of you here want to turn it into a war between Nvidia and AMD.

Who said it will not be compatible with older card. All I said is they will introduce it with new architecture.
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post #62 of 148
Just bought my G-Sync display less than a month ago, but it's not like I'd ever use the console on this.
    
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post #63 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I never said the opposite???

Just saying that QA is way better because the market is small and Nvidia can handle it and not leaving it on the display manufacturer.

No reason to get trigger'd like that

There is no triggering...

You said the Q&A on G-Sync is better because the market was "way smaller" than FreeSync. That isn't true at all as the Q&A has nothing to do with market size, but instead how the technology is implemented. The Q&A on G-Sync is better because Nvidia is doing it, with their engineers, on their R&D budget, on their technology, in their labs. Not because they do it on fewer displays.

By comparison you have AMD that just puts it out and leaves it to the individual display manufacturers to hash out the details and get the performance they market for their product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

In your post you said display manufacturer... How is that different from what i said?

wth.gif

You appear to be simply stating the performance issues are entirely on the display manufacturer and not "FreeSync", I am trying to point out that it is actually not true. The performance issues compared to G-Sync are both because of how FreeSync works and what manufacturers are doing with it in their implementation.

Nvidia, before announcing G-Sync, had been working for a couple of years on VRR and taking various approaches to it. They were very open in the beginning about how they initially tried VRR the way AMD did, by using the v_blank command in DP as well as other methods. None of them performed to the same level with the technology at the time as it could with custom hardware.

So the performance delta between G-Sync and Freesync comes down to both. When FreeSync is done right it is near indistinguishable from G-Sync now, when not done right it is obviously bad, but that is a recent development in the history of VRR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Who said it will not be compatible with older card. All I said is they will introduce it with new architecture.

It was your "All marketing" comment in the end that really put the bad tone on your statement.

EDIT:

Since we are discussing manufacturers outright at this point, I wonder if Microsoft has reached out to any TV manufacturers to start pushing VRR in TVs. Maybe Samsung or Panasonic? Microsoft backing FreeSync on a console now should make a few waves at least.

Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/11/17 at 5:38pm
    
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post #64 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

There is no triggering...

You said the Q&A on G-Sync is better because the market was "way smaller" than FreeSync. That isn't true at all as the Q&A has nothing to do with market size, but instead how the technology is implemented. The Q&A on G-Sync is better because Nvidia is doing it, with their engineers, on their R&D budget, on their technology, in their labs. Not because they do it on fewer displays.

By comparison you have AMD that just puts it out and leaves it to the individual display manufacturers to hash out the details and get the performance they market for their product.
You appear to be simply stating the performance issues are entirely on the display manufacturer and not "FreeSync", I am trying to point out that it is actually not true. The performance issues compared to G-Sync are both because of how FreeSync works and what manufacturers are doing with it in their implementation.

Nvidia, before announcing G-Sync, had been working for a couple of years on VRR and taking various approaches to it. They were very open in the beginning about how they initially tried VRR the way AMD did, by using the v_blank command in DP as well as other methods. None of them performed to the same level with the technology at the time as it could with custom hardware.

So the performance delta between G-Sync and Freesync comes down to both. When FreeSync is done right it is near indistinguishable from G-Sync now, when not done right it is obviously bad, but that is a recent development in the history of VRR.
It was your "All marketing" comment in the end that really put the bad tone on your statement.

EDIT:

Since we are discussing manufacturers outright at this point, I wonder if Microsoft has reached out to any TV manufacturers to start pushing VRR in TVs. Maybe Samsung or Panasonic? Microsoft backing FreeSync on a console now should make a few waves at least.

Does a highend freesync monitor have these "performance issues"?
post #65 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

There is no triggering...

You said the Q&A on G-Sync is better because the market was "way smaller" than FreeSync. That isn't true at all as the Q&A has nothing to do with market size, but instead how the technology is implemented. The Q&A on G-Sync is better because Nvidia is doing it, with their engineers, on their R&D budget, on their technology, in their labs. Not because they do it on fewer displays.

By comparison you have AMD that just puts it out and leaves it to the individual display manufacturers to hash out the details and get the performance they market for their product.
You appear to be simply stating the performance issues are entirely on the display manufacturer and not "FreeSync", I am trying to point out that it is actually not true. The performance issues compared to G-Sync are both because of how FreeSync works and what manufacturers are doing with it in their implementation.

Nvidia, before announcing G-Sync, had been working for a couple of years on VRR and taking various approaches to it. They were very open in the beginning about how they initially tried VRR the way AMD did, by using the v_blank command in DP as well as other methods. None of them performed to the same level with the technology at the time as it could with custom hardware.

So the performance delta between G-Sync and Freesync comes down to both. When FreeSync is done right it is near indistinguishable from G-Sync now, when not done right it is obviously bad, but that is a recent development in the history of VRR.
It was your "All marketing" comment in the end that really put the bad tone on your statement.

EDIT:

Since we are discussing manufacturers outright at this point, I wonder if Microsoft has reached out to any TV manufacturers to start pushing VRR in TVs. Maybe Samsung or Panasonic? Microsoft backing FreeSync on a console now should make a few waves at least.

I give up some times you are a logical human being sometimes you are a pain in the ass.
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post #66 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Does a highend freesync monitor have these "performance issues"?

Yes, the biggest difference between G-Sync and FreeSync is what happens below 30 FPS, or the VRR window. G-Sync uses the on-board 768 MB of RAM to perform frame doubling, tripling, etc. AMD later implemented a similar feature called Low Framerate Compensation (LFC), but not all displays have it. Only a few of their higher end 1440P displays have it and none of the 4K displays I know of have it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I give up some times you are a logical human being sometimes you are a pain in the ass.

Care to expand on this?

You stated G-Sync is better because the "market is way smaller"; this isn't why it is better, not one bit. It is better because it is designed to be better and is backed with all the efforts to assure that. It really is a simple matter of effort versus end result.

This shouldn't be surprising given how much damn money Nvidia has.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/11/17 at 7:03pm
    
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post #67 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Know how societies nowadays reward time and effort? With money. G-sync has been applicably better; therefore, it's more expensive.

An overly idealistic, and frequently backwards, sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

So the performance delta between G-Sync and Freesync comes down to both. When FreeSync is done right it is near indistinguishable from G-Sync now, when not done right it is obviously bad, but that is a recent development in the history of VRR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Yes, the biggest difference between G-Sync and FreeSync is what happens below 30 FPS, or the VRR window. G-Sync uses the on-board 768 MB of RAM to perform frame doubling, tripling, etc. AMD later implemented a similar feature called Low Framerate Compensation (LFC), but not all displays have it. Only a few of their higher end 1440P displays have it and none of the 4K displays I know of have it..
Care to expand on this?

All of which is why I think NVIDIA will eventually move to a pure software implementation, around VESA's adaptive refresh, charge display makers for certification, and only certify high-end implementations. By the time this comes to pass, there will be so few tangible advantages to the hardware module that no one will lose anything, and NVIDIA can make more money, while charging less.

We already have a taste of this with mobile G-Sync.
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post #68 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

An overly idealistic, and frequently backwards, sentiment.

All of which is why I think NVIDIA will eventually move to a pure software implementation, around VESA's adaptive refresh, charge display makers for certification, and only certify high-end implementations. By the time this comes to pass, there will be so few tangible advantages to the hardware module that no one will lose anything, and NVIDIA can make more money, while charging less.

We already have a taste of this with mobile G-Sync.

Either that or VRR will die off. Future screens have to support both standards. I am still not VRR until that happens. Do not want to be locked to AMD or Nvidia.
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post #69 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

An overly idealistic, and frequently backwards, sentiment.

All of which is why I think NVIDIA will eventually move to a pure software implementation, around VESA's adaptive refresh, charge display makers for certification, and only certify high-end implementations. By the time this comes to pass, there will be so few tangible advantages to the hardware module that no one will lose anything, and NVIDIA can make more money, while charging less.

We already have a taste of this with mobile G-Sync.

Exactly.

Hopefully at that time VRR is just a standard on any display, be it PC monitor or home television. With Microsoft backing that eventual goal by supporting FreeSync on Scorpio, I think we are just one step closer.
    
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post #70 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Exactly.

Hopefully at that time VRR is just a standard on any display, be it PC monitor or home television. With Microsoft backing that eventual goal by supporting FreeSync on Scorpio, I think we are just one step closer.

I can see VRR in the next LG OLED for cool low price of $6.5K biggrin.gif
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Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 
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Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large Audioengine D1 DAC 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Logitech Z-2300 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 Sony XB950BT 
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AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
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Ishimura
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Silent Knight
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Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition AMD Radeon R9 16GB DDR3-2400MHz  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX 3x GentleTyphoon AP-15 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large Audioengine D1 DAC 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Logitech Z-2300 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
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