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Ryzen 1400 CCX Question

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
So I'm planning on going for a new Ryzen build strictly for gaming purposes. I don't do stuff like antivirus, play music, stream/record, or anything else in the background, so one of the 4c/8t models ought to be sufficient for just about anything I will play for the next few years. I'm expecting to play games at 60FPS, so whatever performance improvements the 1600(X) offers will likely be irrelevant to me. That being said, I'm limiting my choices to the 1400 and the 1500X. I intend to overclock; since all Ryzen CPUs seem to be limited around 4GHz, I figure the 1400 shouldn't be much of a gamble.

One of the less-noticeable differences of the 1400 is an 8MB L3 cache. I suspect that will be plenty sufficient, and I suspect this means these CPUs only utilize one CCX. Am I right in assuming this? The CCXs are hypothesized as one of the reasons for Ryzen's poor latency. I would gladly sacrifice 8MB of L3 cache if it means my latency will improve. But, I haven't found any benchmarks to prove this. The way I see it, as long as all 16MB of L3 are used, both CCXs are effectively active.

So ultimately this is my question:
Does anybody know of a benchmark performed where a CCX was proved disabled, while comparing results of an equal amount of threads where both CCXs were enabled?


If disabling a CCX has a nearly negligible performance difference in all tests, then I'll get the 1500X, which is a much better value ($20 more for a better heatsink, double the L3 cache, higher stock speed, and known to have better silicon quality).

Note I'm not looking for opinions or suggestions, but actual data.
Edited by schmidtbag - 4/12/17 at 9:40am
   
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post #2 of 11
all the Ryzen line so far uses both CCX's. 1400 and 1500X are 2+2.

There were tests done on anandtech forums by some users who found a mostly negligible difference between 4+0 and 2+2 configurations. But I do not have links to these specific posts in that ryzen megathread.
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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
But if the 1400 has 8MB of L3, how could it use both CCXs? If you look at the structure of the die, it doesn't make sense how the chip could perform reliably where there'd be a large gap of potentially defective transistors between the two sets of core clusters. On the flip side, it doesn't make sense how you can disable half of the L3 if both CCXs are enabled.

I've seen some mixed results when it came to 4+0 and 2+2 configurations, where some tests seemed to show 4+0 being faster (particularly in cache performance), while other benchmarks showed no difference whatsoever. The problem is nobody seems to prove if a CCX is actually disabled. They never show anything like the CPU-Z specs to prove the results. As far as I'm concerned, a 4+0 configuration with 16MB of L3 still has 2x CCXs enabled, so you won't notice any difference in performance compared to a 2+2 arrangement. I'm not sure if all motherboards disable the L3 in a CCX.
   
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post #4 of 11
There's some L2 cache disabled which really seems to hamper performance in the 4 core 8 thread cpus. It seems AMD was trying not to cannibalize the sales of their higher end chips. The 1600X is still the best bet.
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Huh. I didn't notice the L2 was affected too. Maybe I shouldn't go for this after all...

EDIT:
Actually the 1500X also has the same sized L2. Regardless, I wasn't aware both 4-core models were worse in this regard. Maybe I should just go for the 1600.
Edited by schmidtbag - 4/12/17 at 12:48pm
   
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post #6 of 11
The 1400 is a poor purchase because the Wraith cooler provided is weaker than the one on the Ryzen 5 1500X, while also having lower L3 cache. You can't overclock away a 50% cache deficit when Ryzen is so dependent on it to not hit the cross-CCX latencies.
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

The 1400 is a poor purchase because the Wraith cooler provided is weaker than the one on the Ryzen 5 1500X, while also having lower L3 cache. You can't overclock away a 50% cache deficit when Ryzen is so dependent on it to not hit the cross-CCX latencies.
I wouldn't plan on OCing even using the better cooler; the heatsink is irrelevant to me because I already have my own that I intend to use.

The lower L3 should have no impact on performance at all. Whether you have the 8c/16t models or the 1500X (a 4c/8t) you still get 16MB of L3. That doesn't scale very well. These CPUs were designed with the 8-cores in mind, so half the cores for half the cache shouldn't really hurt anything. If anything, it would improve performance (larger caches are always slower than smaller ones).
   
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post #8 of 11
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
@AlphaC
Thanks for the evidence. It's interesting how even though technically both CCXs are active (with the full 16MB cache), the CPUs still perform a little better with one CCX. I've seen other benchmarks showing how the smaller L3 cache has little to no impact on performance outside of synthetic benchmarks. I don't really understand why AMD is so insistent on using both CCXs, but, maybe they don't like the idea of a low-end product outperforming their more high-end models.
   
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post #10 of 11
The reason is how many chips have one whole CCX broken with the other one intact?

If one core broken = Ryzen 5 1600X / Ryzen 5 1600 ?
If two broken , one on each CCX = Ryzen 5 1600X ? / Ryzen 5 1600
If two cores broken on the same CCX = Ryzen 5 1500X
If three cores broken , two on one CCX and one on the other CCX = Ryzen 5 1400?
If four cores broken , two on each CCX = Ryzen 5 1400?

I think if you insist on a 4 core you're better off waiting for APUs with a damaged graphics portion akin to Athlons on FM2+.
Edited by AlphaC - 4/14/17 at 7:09am
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Samsung 950 Pro / 960 Evo / 960 Pro 256GB or 51... Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD Storage Black or black+white Twin tower air cooler or s... EK Vardar F2-140 140mm, Phanteks PH-F140SP 140m... 
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