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[Various] [Updated] New processors are now blocked from receiving updates on old Windows - Page 15

post #141 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

HAHA, as opposed to MACROHARD. In this case I feel compelled to share some good news with you, after careful consideration I have realised that I absolutely could not care less whether you take me seriously.

I haven't used 7 in years, I am using 8.1 and prefer it to 7. Sadly even 8.1 isn't without flaws as it's been proven that the scheduler in 7 works better than both 8.1 and Win Spy.

And I do blame M$py for blocking updates. While 7 is on extended support 8.1 is still on mainstream support thus MFools have no reason to cease support for an OS I paid for. If they wish to reduce the maintenance time of the OS then they can either refund me the money I spent on it or sell it for a price that corresponds with their support period. Interestingly this is being entirely ignored by many here and the blame is conveniently shifted to AMD and Intel who do not own Windows (which is proprietary and not open source or free).

Neither AMD nor Intel own Windows and even if they release drivers for a chip it is up to M$py to either incorporate the drivers or ignore them. Linux distro's have been updated with drivers for both Kaby Lake and Zen yet M$py refuse to update both 7 and 8.1, but don't let that stop you from blaming the wrong parties.

Edit: some corrections.

Ahhhh, this old saw again. rolleyes.gif Look, first off MS is NOT blocking updates for your hardware so you can still use Win8.1 on your PC all you want. If YOU make the decision to move onto KL or Ryzen then that's on you. But it doesn't matter anyway because you can still get Win10 for free with your 8.1 license if you put even a modicum of effort in. So stahp with the tired "I paid for my license and MS should cater to me for decades" argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

This will likely never happen, as the point of Windows 10 is based on data collection. It's entire existence is based on it.

And it's the main reason why MS is jumping through hoops trying to enforce that the entire Windows user base use it.

Just my opinion.

I still just can't work out why data collection is such a massive "Big Satan" for you guys? I don't care one bit if MS collects data on my PC usage just like I don't care that Google and Apple do the same. Even web browsers and certain websites are capable of data collection. Despite the paranoid hand-wringing of so many on this forum, this data collection really is quite innocuous at the end of the day. They are not trying to steal your bank info or expose whatever potentially embarrassing porn habits you may have. The data collected is mostly general in nature and is simply used for the purposes of generating additional revenue through targeted advertising or by selling the data for the purposes of targeted advertising for the most part. I just think all of this whinging over telemetry is so silly, especially in a day and age where your physical movements are tracked by your cell phone, there are countless government cameras watching our every move, and nearly every sector of the tech industry collects data in some form or another anyway. You might as well go ahead and get used to it because its only going to get more and more pervasive as the years go by and that's just the price to be paid for technological advancement, especially where the internet is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

That's a good point which was raised, nevermind Windows 7...but Windows 8.1 is being blocked? That's still in mainstream support...can they do that? Just stop supporting something they've publicly committed to supporting?

On new hardware of course they can (remember its Intel and AMD who are not providing compatibility with any other versions of Windows than 10, not MS). They are still supporting any hardware config you could possibly have had when 8.1 released and besides, if they really wanted to they could force you to get a new license anytime you switch out hardware anyway.
Edited by Majin SSJ Eric - 4/16/17 at 7:11pm
post #142 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

HAHA, as opposed to MACROHARD. In this case I feel compelled to share some good news with you, after careful consideration I have realised that I absolutely could not care less whether you take me seriously.

I haven't used 7 in years, I am using 8.1 and prefer it to 7. Sadly even 8.1 isn't without flaws as it's been proven that the scheduler in 7 works better than both 8.1 and Win Spy.

And I do blame M$py for blocking updates. While 7 is on extended support 8.1 is still on mainstream support thus MFools have no reason to cease support for an OS I paid for. If they wish to reduce the maintenance time of the OS then they can either refund me the money I spent on it or sell it for a price that corresponds with their support period. Interestingly this is being entirely ignored by many here and the blame is conveniently shifted to AMD and Intel who do not own Windows (which is proprietary and not open source or free).

Neither AMD nor Intel own Windows and even if they release drivers for a chip it is up to M$py to either incorporate the drivers or ignore them. Linux distro's have been updated with drivers for both Kaby Lake and Zen yet M$py refuse to update both 7 and 8.1, but don't let that stop you from blaming the wrong parties.

Edit: some corrections.

Ahhhh, this old saw again. rolleyes.gif Look, first off MS is NOT blocking updates for your hardware so you can still use Win8.1 on your PC all you want. If YOU make the decision to move onto KL or Ryzen then that's on you. But it doesn't matter anyway because you can still get Win10 for free with your 8.1 license if you put even a modicum of effort in. So stahp with the tired "I paid for my license and MS should cater to me for decades" argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

This will likely never happen, as the point of Windows 10 is based on data collection. It's entire existence is based on it.

And it's the main reason why MS is jumping through hoops trying to enforce that the entire Windows user base use it.

Just my opinion.

I still just can't work out why data collection is such a massive "Big Satan" for you guys? I don't care one bit if MS collects data on my PC usage just like I don't care that Google and Apple do the same. Even web browsers and certain websites are capable of data collection. Despite the paranoid hand-wringing of so many on this forum, this data collection really is quite innocuous at the end of the day. They are not trying to steal your bank info or expose whatever potentially embarrassing porn habits you may have. The data collected is mostly general in nature and is simply used for the purposes of generating additional revenue through targeted advertising or by selling the data for the purposes of targeted advertising for the most part. I just think all of this whinging over telemetry is so silly, especially in a day and age where your physical movements are tracked by your cell phone, there are countless government cameras watching our every move, and nearly every sector of the tech industry collects data in some form or another anyway. You might as well go ahead and get used to it because its only going to get more and more pervasive as the years go by and that's just the price to be paid for technological advancement, especially where the internet is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

That's a good point which was raised, nevermind Windows 7...but Windows 8.1 is being blocked? That's still in mainstream support...can they do that? Just stop supporting something they've publicly committed to supporting?

On new hardware of course they can (remember its Intel and AMD who are not providing compatibility with any other versions of Windows than 10, not MS). They are still supporting any hardware config you could possibly have had when 8.1 released and besides, if they really wanted to they could force you to get a new license anytime you switch out hardware anyway.

If M$imple Jack want me to move to Win Spy I will gladly send them a bill for the time it costs me to remove their bloat and spyware.

 

You don't understand what can be done with all that metadata so you don't care. By the time you realise it will be too late and you will have fallen in your own trap but it's pointless to argue with those who fanatically support what's coming and what's coming is going to make North Korea (nearly 100% of what we know about NK is a lie, what a shock) look like paradise.

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post #143 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

If M$imple Jack want me to move to Win Spy I will gladly send them a bill for the time it costs me to remove their bloat and spyware.

You don't understand what can be done with all that metadata so you don't care. By the time you realise it will be too late and you will have fallen in your own trap but it's pointless to argue with those who fanatically support what's coming and what's coming is going to make North Korea (nearly 100% of what we know about NK is a lie, what a shock) look like paradise.

Its absolutely hysterical to read your comments about how free and great China is (and apparently North Korea as well, based on the inference of the above bolded bit) while on the other hand being so paranoid over data collection in an OS! The hypocrisy (or perhaps just blind ignorance) is staggering! Please do continue though, I can always use the laughs! thumb.gif
post #144 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

If M$imple Jack want me to move to Win Spy I will gladly send them a bill for the time it costs me to remove their bloat and spyware.

You don't understand what can be done with all that metadata so you don't care. By the time you realise it will be too late and you will have fallen in your own trap but it's pointless to argue with those who fanatically support what's coming and what's coming is going to make North Korea (nearly 100% of what we know about NK is a lie, what a shock) look like paradise.

Its absolutely hysterical to read your comments about how free and great China is (and apparently North Korea as well, based on the inference of the above bolded bit) while on the other hand being so paranoid over data collection in an OS! The hypocrisy (or perhaps just blind ignorance) is staggering! Please do continue though, I can always use the laughs! thumb.gif

Tacitus and Orwell are two authors you should read. In the meantime enjoy your laugh.

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post #145 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

The important part being "Setting a value of 0 applies to Enterprise, EDU, IoT and Server devices only. Setting a value of 0 for other devices is equivalent to setting a value of 1."

So, in your case, i suppose you'd be at a 1.

i can confirm it.

i use both ent and pro
the setting having real effect only on my ent edition
post #146 of 188
I feel sorry for the poor sods who have been running their brand new Kaby Lake systems for several months without problems who only now have been told that they aren't supposed to work.
    
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post #147 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
We knew Microsoft was planning to block installation of Windows 7 and 8.1 updates on systems with Intel 7th Generation Core processors (more memorably known as Kaby Lake) and AMD Ryzen systems

Yeah, it wasn't anything to do with Intel or AMD saying they wouldn't support the old software. No, it's all MACROHARD'S FAULT. rolleyes.gif

You know by now that that's not the entirety of their positioning, especially considering their actions (see below). AMD initially said it was supported, but then probably got pressured and went into a more politically correct that they validated Ryzen on both Windows 7 and 10. We can all see that both AMD and Intel have business relationships with Microsoft, but also have to balance what their customers want and need, so they end up not being able to fully commit, but also won't go the other way.










The only thing you probably won't get to work is Kaby Lake's iGPU, but that isn't a valid reason to not be able to install security updates. Not wanting to commit to any responsibility that they will work, I can understand, after all that is the kind of expectation that getting them through Windows Update brings - even though that is mostly a PR problem as no update nor the OS is given that guarantee. But making the standalone updates that were manually downloaded from the Update Catalog fail? Even more so when their literature on the subject doesn't say anything about that being blocked too? That's going too far. And then add the fact that Windows 8.1 is still under mainstream support.

But of course, there will always be someone here defending their actions, it's par for the course.
Edited by tpi2007 - 4/17/17 at 6:09am
 
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post #148 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Ahhhh, this old saw again. rolleyes.gif Look, first off MS is NOT blocking updates for your hardware so you can still use Win8.1 on your PC all you want. If YOU make the decision to move onto KL or Ryzen then that's on you. But it doesn't matter anyway because you can still get Win10 for free with your 8.1 license if you put even a modicum of effort in. So stahp with the tired "I paid for my license and MS should cater to me for decades" argument.
I still just can't work out why data collection is such a massive "Big Satan" for you guys? I don't care one bit if MS collects data on my PC usage just like I don't care that Google and Apple do the same. Even web browsers and certain websites are capable of data collection. Despite the paranoid hand-wringing of so many on this forum, this data collection really is quite innocuous at the end of the day. They are not trying to steal your bank info or expose whatever potentially embarrassing porn habits you may have. The data collected is mostly general in nature and is simply used for the purposes of generating additional revenue through targeted advertising or by selling the data for the purposes of targeted advertising for the most part. I just think all of this whinging over telemetry is so silly, especially in a day and age where your physical movements are tracked by your cell phone, there are countless government cameras watching our every move, and nearly every sector of the tech industry collects data in some form or another anyway. You might as well go ahead and get used to it because its only going to get more and more pervasive as the years go by and that's just the price to be paid for technological advancement, especially where the internet is concerned.
On new hardware of course they can (remember its Intel and AMD who are not providing compatibility with any other versions of Windows than 10, not MS). They are still supporting any hardware config you could possibly have had when 8.1 released and besides, if they really wanted to they could force you to get a new license anytime you switch out hardware anyway.

But Ryzen and Kaby both work on Win 7 and Win 8/8.1...

So even if they don't get the optimal performance how is that any different than supporting Pascal on older OS when we don't get the full benefits of Pascal under Win 7, as an example?

It's not Intel+AMD's job to patch windows for new architecture...that's MS's job...
post #149 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

...

I figured that communities like this will always have people like you...
So long story short:

1) I paid for OS license and I expect Microsoft to provide reasonable backward AND forward support - in this particular instance, I expect M$ to carry out support at very least for W8.1, up to the very end of official support date (that's "mainstream + extended") for old and newly released platforms. After that, they can do whatever they want, because either I will be due to upgrade OS, or I will deemed unnecessary to upgrade and I will live with OS without further security patches. Needless to say, good home network setup and reasonable SW firewall will do the job to get me protected against most common threads on internet, and I am saying that as educated user who got infected exactly 1 time in last decade. Moreover, there was evidence in the past about some security holes which M$ didn't get fixed even before current situation.

2) Telemetry stuff - I accept that you don't see any issue with it. But that does not mean everybody will just shut up and put up with it. Average Joe will accept the progress, more educated users will outright refuse to use OS, which appears to have some form of schizophrenia (have 2 control panels for 2 different set of settings) and so on. Not to mention weird issues with breaking SW after some update, or ouright uninstalling of SW because somebody at M$ didn't put enough effort to perform proper QC before release.
By the way, does it mean that you are fine also with THIS ? I am so glad I am living in Europe right now.

3) I think that you are not able to properly read what is being discussed here - we are discussing here the fact, that M$ decided to ban W7/8.1 from patches on Ryzen/KL processors, which goes straight against their own ToS or EULA, which does not state anywhere that they have a right to do that with old OS versions. So AMD/Intel does not play any role here - they provide drivers for CPU/MB/GPU, and as far as I can see, they are still doing it. So please get your facts together before you write disinformation like that.

Edit for 3) : Ryzen or KL didn't bring so big architectural changes that would require rewriting OS from scratch - in which instance, this whole fiasco would be understandable.
post #150 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post



The only thing you probably won't get to work is Kaby Lake's iGPU, but that isn't a valid reason to not be able to install security updates. Not wanting to commit to any responsibility that they will work, I can understand, after all that is the kind of expectation that getting them through Windows Update brings - even though that is mostly a PR problem as no update nor the OS is given that guarantee. But making the standalone updates that were manually downloaded from the Update Catalog fail? Even more so when their literature on the subject doesn't say anything about that being blocked too? That's going too far. And then add the fact that Windows 8.1 is still under mainstream support.

But of course, there will always be someone here defending their actions, it's par for the course.

For Kaby Lake iGpu: Windows 7/8.1 works well with 21.20.16.4508 Intel_vga_driver. You need to find it on Gigabyte,Msi,Asus support site.
Latest Intel Chipset driver work well on Windows 7/8.1.
Audio and Lan driver you need to find it,aswell,on GB,Msi,Asus support site
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