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[Telegraph] Nasa announces alien life could be thriving on Saturn’s moon Enceladus - Page 6

post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

But...but...but...but...but...but......but......he played Kerbal.

Lol, then I take it all back, easily a PhD in Aerospace Engineering then... thumb.gif
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post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Microbes again? Much ado about microbes...

NASA just put one of these articles out a month prior. I suppose the question I want to ask is: is there any new evidence besides microbes/bacteria over and over and over and over ad nauseum infinitum?

I wouldn't go as far saying that ^ Scientists have long postulated that single cell & microbial life is the densest segment of things we would consider alive, but we still have yet to actually prove that it exists anywhere besides our little blue marble floating in the Sun's gravity well. If we were able to get proof positive that even single celled organisms developed elsewhere than Earth it would be one of the BIGGEST scientific discoveries in recorded history.
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post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarusIV View Post

First, hypotheses don't have to be accurate, they're hypotheses! It's an educated guess based on information gathered to date and it is something to test, not declare! The point of a hypothesis is to have something to prove or disprove. It feels like the common colloquial use of hypothesis is as something that's been proven and is taken for a fact... and that couldn't be further from the truth! The hypothesis is where you start your inquiry.

With that said, it's interesting because it seems there are more similarities between Earth's deep ocean environments and Enceladus' from what we can see so far. I'm not saying we're going to find life, I'm saying (and I believe what the paper is saying) is that from what we've found so far, the chances of finding life in Enceladus' deep ocean are now much higher than we previously thought due to that unexpected similarity.

Also, we do know that Enceladus has a salty water ocean, Cassini found that for us as well as finding the molecular hydrogen in the plumes. And just because we don't know exactly how life started on Earth (which there are a few good hypotheses) doesn't mean we can't find out how or why life got started on another celestial body. Why would you think knowledge about Enceladus (or any other moon, planet, or planetoid) hinges completely on our knowledge of Earth?

Cassini found molecular H2 which POINTS to a water ocean but does NOT prove it. Still hypothetical until we can actually sample this supposed water directly. Again, this was the point of my earlier post. Its certainly most plausible that it is water but not proven. Yet.
post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Cassini found molecular H2 which POINTS to a water ocean but does NOT prove it. Still hypothetical until we can actually sample this supposed water directly. Again, this was the point of my earlier post. Its certainly most plausible that it is water but not proven. Yet.

This is absolutely true. I don't think anyone at NASA thinks there is enough evidence for deep oceans on Enceladus to warrant sending a mission capable of reliably getting through even 2 km of ice to investigate (if we could at all). At least a few more smaller and cheaper missions are needed to pick the best moon for something like that.

It is probably worth sending a lander of some kind that could get better measurements on the surface. thumb.gif
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post #55 of 62
ohh look, moon rabbits. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

This is absolutely true. I don't think anyone at NASA thinks there is enough evidence for deep oceans on Enceladus to warrant sending a mission capable of reliably getting through even 2 km of ice to investigate (if we could at all). At least a few more smaller and cheaper missions are needed to pick the best moon for something like that.

It is probably worth sending a lander of some kind that could get better measurements on the surface. thumb.gif

getting through that thick ice isn't possible with any portable equipment.
they'd run out of battery (no solar power deep underground) and the drillbit will be well over worn out before it could even get deep enough to be considered "deep".

however, a landrover is quite likely, similar to mars' landrover probe.
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

getting through that thick ice isn't possible with any portable equipment.
they'd run out of battery (no solar power deep underground) and the drillbit will be well over worn out before it could even get deep enough to be considered "deep".

however, a landrover is quite likely, similar to mars' landrover probe.

There are always those breeder reactor heat batteries, i.e. radioisotope thermoelectric generators, that deep space probes use. biggrin.gif
Even solar power is pretty bad out by Saturn. It might need a few...
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post #57 of 62
nuclear based batteries could work, but most of them doesn't supply the required power to have it drill and send back data through thick ice.
although theres an option of "melting" the ice instead of drilling through it, it'll require a powerful radioisotope reactor to do it.

actually, can radio signals pass through such a thick layer of ice and reach back to earth?
post #58 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

nuclear based batteries could work, but most of them doesn't supply the required power to have it drill and send back data through thick ice.
although theres an option of "melting" the ice instead of drilling through it, it'll require a powerful radioisotope reactor to do it.

actually, can radio signals pass through such a thick layer of ice and reach back to earth?

No, radio is blocked by very short distances of water or ice. An orbiter, base station on the surface, and a teathered borer, could get the data back to us but the swimmer would need to be very autonomous, which makes it even harder. There are people with ideas working on it.

The entire project is outside a reasonable mission NASA could actually get the budget for. frown.gif
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post #59 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

No, radio is blocked by very short distances of water or ice. An orbiter, base station on the surface, and a teathered borer, could get the data back to us but the swimmer would need to be very autonomous, which makes it even harder. There are people with ideas working on it.

The entire project is outside a reasonable mission NASA could actually get the budget for. frown.gif

Good thing we're working on A.I. who could be given these tasks to manage on their own.
post #60 of 62
I'm still waiting to do under-ice whaling on Europa.
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