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Overclocking Limits

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Hello guys, i want to ask the experienced ocers on here a few questions. Is heat the only limiting factor for overclocking?.

Can a better cooler need less voltage than a worse one to reach the same OC (with both staying at reasonable temps, say under 85c)?.

Can a better cooler reach a higher overclock than a worse one despite both maintaining the same temps (far lower than the thermal limit) at a lower frequency?, if so, why is this?, what's the limit factor if isn't heat?

What i mean by this is that there are some review sites that claim certain coolers can reach say 4,4, but not 4,5 despite showing low temps with the former.

Take a look at this graph for example



How in the hell can't for example the Silver Arrow reach 4,625 like the others when it has such lows temps at 4,5, what's the explanation on this?, what would be the supposed limiting factor if anything?

Thanks in advance!
post #2 of 8

There are lots and lots of factors at play. Due to what has been dubbed "the silicon lottery", you have the CPU itself , the motherboard, the memory, everything else in the system (it all plays a little factor), and of course you haev the quality of the power supply due to things like ripple suppression and voltage regulation. In other words, voltage stability and voltage accuracy. The PSU has to convert Alternating Current into Direct Current. That's not exactly an easy thing to do.

 

It can also just as easily be affected by the person doing the overclocking.

 

The temperatures are only a small part of it. You also have to worry about all of the different voltages and how they work together. There are other settings to tweak as well.

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post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

There are lots and lots of factors at play. Due to what has been dubbed "the silicon lottery", you have the CPU itself , the motherboard, the memory, everything else in the system (it all plays a little factor), and of course you haev the quality of the power supply due to things like ripple suppression and voltage regulation. In other words, voltage stability and voltage accuracy. The PSU has to convert Alternating Current into Direct Current. That's not exactly an easy thing to do.

It can also just as easily be affected by the person doing the overclocking.

The temperatures are only a small part of it. You also have to worry about all of the different voltages and how they work together. There are other settings to tweak as well.
Yeah i know, but what if the test system is exactly the same except for the heatsink like in that review, what is the limiting factor if it's not temps?
post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

There are lots and lots of factors at play. Due to what has been dubbed "the silicon lottery", you have the CPU itself , the motherboard, the memory, everything else in the system (it all plays a little factor), and of course you haev the quality of the power supply due to things like ripple suppression and voltage regulation. In other words, voltage stability and voltage accuracy. The PSU has to convert Alternating Current into Direct Current. That's not exactly an easy thing to do.

It can also just as easily be affected by the person doing the overclocking.

The temperatures are only a small part of it. You also have to worry about all of the different voltages and how they work together. There are other settings to tweak as well.

Yeah i know, but what if the test system is exactly the same except for the heatsink like in that review?, what's the limiting factor then if it's not temps?.
post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by KazumaKiryu View Post


Yeah i know, but what if the test system is exactly the same except for the heatsink like in that review?, what's the limiting factor then if it's not temps?.

 

Maybe it's the person doing the overclocking. Or maybe it's the way that system overclocks that CPU. I don't know. All you can really do when you get a system is, begin overclocking it and getting to know it - while keeping the temperatures and voltages as low as you can while getting the CPU coverclocked as far as you can.

It's a computer!
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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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It's a computer!
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Maybe it's the person doing the overclocking. Or maybe it's the way that system overclocks that CPU. I don't know. All you can really do when you get a system is, begin overclocking it and getting to know it - while keeping the temperatures and voltages as low as you can while getting the CPU coverclocked as far as you can.

What i want to know is if for example, i can make the same overclock of say 5,0 at the same voltage be it with an Hyper 212 Evo or a PH-TC14PE as long as i don't hit the thermal limit or if there's other factors as to why the overclock will fail with one heatsink and not the other apart from temps. Because if there's not then you can get away with a cheaper and perhaps more silent heatisink to reach the same overclock with the only downside being a few C more.
post #7 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by KazumaKiryu View Post


What i want to know is if for example, i can make the same overclock of say 5,0 at the same voltage be it with an Hyper 212 Evo or a PH-TC14PE as long as i don't hit the thermal limit or if there's other factors as to why the overclock will fail with one heatsink and not the other apart from temps. Because if there's not then you can get away with a cheaper and perhaps more silent heatisink to reach the same overclock with the only downside being a few C more.

 

I think "thermal limit" depends on the CPU that you end up with. I'm not referring to the maximum safe temperature, but I'm referring to where you end up with instability due to the heat at a high clock.

 

I think the best advice that anyone can give is, buy the CPU cooling that best matches your goal. If you want to get the absolute highest overclock out of your CPU on air, then go with the best air cooler that you can afford. If you're more casual about it, then don't worry about it so much.

It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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post #8 of 8

Depending on your chip, you may hit a thermal wall or your may hit a voltage wall or you may hit an overclock wall. The 4770k Haswell and the preceding Ivy Bridge chips had a gap as well as a lousy TIM. Up  to a point they were OK, but when you reached that point the TIM would pass no more heat. So It didn't matter if you had the best water cooler -- you had hit the thermal wall. Other chips allow you to run hotter, but the chips cannot OC faster. Some chips need too high a voltage to OC safely. It all depends on the silicon lottery.

alpha updated
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secundus
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alpha updated
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secundus
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4790k Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming-7 Intel HD4600 Crucial Ballistix Sport Very Low Profile 8GB Ki... 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 EVO 500GB Prolimatech Megahalems Rev. C Windows 8.1 Home Premium 64-bit Acer K242HL 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Dell SK-8110 (PS/2) Seasonic X460 Fanless motherboard tray from CM ATCS 840 Logitech MX 1100 
Mouse PadAudio
Dell Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi MB3 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 860 Gigabyte GA P55M UD2 ZOTAC/NVidia GTX 650 Ti 2GB 4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1333 CAS9 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 1TB Spinpoint F3 7200.12 Plextor 24x DVD burner Cooler Master Hyper Z600R Win7 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell E207WFP 20-inch flat panel Logitech Wireless 510 Seasonic X-650 fully modular 80+ Gold Lian Li PC-7FN 
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