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[MyDrivers.com] GeForce 20 series to be released later this year (Volta) - Page 10

post #91 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by maltamonk View Post

Evidently you didn't really read what you are replying to. I noted "not in terms of sales, but in terms of value for money". All of polaris is a better value. the 460 at 90-110 beats the 950, the 470 at 120-160 destroys the 1050 and 1050ti, and finally the 480 at 170- 220 beats both 3GB and 6GB 1060 respectively. I'm sure a lot of ppl ignore the price differences when comparing cards. I am not one of them. I also don't ignore prices that cards can be had for b/c there once was a suggested retail price. Some of the cards were neck and neck for a very short period, but it didn't take long for price drops on polaris. That made polaris the obvious value for money cards in the low-mid range and it's remained that way for the majority of time.
Or maybe other people look at the whole picture, not just the price? You know, for many power consumption, temperatures and noise is also important. Oh and Nvidia often gives out AAA games with their cards, that's another value booster. If AMD was truly such a good value as you claim, it would sell better, but it doesn't, because it isn't.

Anyway, this is getting offtopic, we are talking about mid range cards, but I guess that's all we can do when talking about AMD, when they don't even have an answer to GTX 1070, GTX 1080, GTX 1080Ti, let alone Volta.
post #92 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1 View Post

to lure buyers they need solid product lineup and solid marketing - esports, sience etc

... and all of those need a ton of cash - a luxury AMD doesn't have right now. Depends on how much Nvidia invests in Volta advertisement throughout 2017 to 2019.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1 View Post

one part is done, the software (tired of nvidia software) but that is not a good bait. And, they do need someone with charisma at CEO... people like idiots like Jobs or Huang, suprisingly... (im not talking about their job as CEOs but how they act on stage) Raja is funny, but he doesnt feel like he have some balls.

AMD has notorious mismanagement since ages. In my eyes Raja is the typical indian yes-person. They usually don't have balls if they aren't in the absolute top-position. I don't expect much of him coming from his own impulse.

Jobs and Huang have many things in common. Both got a passion for tech and presentation and both have (had) their respective company tight under their control. Its for debate if they are idiots or not. Yet one thing they were for sure: Successful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

Or maybe other people look at the whole picture, not just the price? You know, for many power consumption, temperatures and noise is also important. Oh and Nvidia often gives out AAA games with their cards, that's another value booster. If AMD was truly such a good value as you claim, it would sell better, but it doesn't, because it isn't.

AMD was once a good value company. Ironically their price-dumping strategy leading to this reputation is now killing them. The old value "price per performence" is starting to crumble hard. If the gap between AMD and Nvidia is getting any wider, they will no longer be even an option.

Power consumption and heat are old banes of the Radeons. If future archs like Volta are even better, there will be a point of no return coming up soon. Buyers and markets need big hits to change the tide. They don't care what the usual fanboys in forums tell day in and out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

Anyway, this is getting offtopic, we are talking about mid range cards, but I guess that's all we can do when talking about AMD, when they don't even have an answer to GTX 1070, GTX 1080, GTX 1080Ti, let alone Volta.

Vega will probably be somewhere between 1070 and 1080 Ti, though with lots of delay. I would be more worried if Volta brings another megahit like a GTX 750 Ti in the low- to mid-end. If Nvidia could repeat this success again with a new iteration of Volta mini cards both powerful and economic, noone would even think of buying Polaris or whatever is the placeholder for the Radeons at that point.

The $100 to $400 mark is the key for making money because the majority of gamers buys hardware there. If Nvidia dominates this segment for a longer time-period, you can forget about the high-end dreams of AMD.
post #93 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Jobs and Huang have many things in common. Both got a passion for tech and presentation and both have (had) their respective company tight under their control. Its for debate if they are idiots or not. Yet one thing they were for sure: Successful!
.
I think ive said that im talking about their behaviour on stage wink.gif
post #94 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

AMD has notorious mismanagement since ages. In my eyes Raja is the typical indian yes-person. They usually don't have balls if they aren't in the absolute top-position. I don't expect much of him coming from his own impulse.

Jobs and Huang have many things in common. Both got a passion for tech and presentation and both have (had) their respective company tight under their control. Its for debate if they are idiots or not. Yet one thing they were for sure: Successful!
AMD was once a good value company. Ironically their price-dumping strategy leading to this reputation is now killing them. The old value "price per performence" is starting to crumble hard. If the gap between AMD and Nvidia is getting any wider, they will no longer be even an option.

Power consumption and heat are old banes of the Radeons. If future archs like Volta are even better, there will be a point of no return coming up soon. Buyers and markets need big hits to change the tide. They don't care what the usual fanboys in forums tell day in and out.
Vega will probably be somewhere between 1070 and 1080 Ti, though with lots of delay. I would be more worried if Volta brings another megahit like a GTX 750 Ti in the low- to mid-end. If Nvidia could repeat this success again with a new iteration of Volta mini cards both powerful and economic, noone would even think of buying Polaris or whatever is the placeholder for the Radeons at that point.

The $100 to $400 mark is the key for making money because the majority of gamers buys hardware there. If Nvidia dominates this segment for a longer time-period, you can forget about the high-end dreams of AMD.
LoL, please stop, Nvidia is nothing like Apple, winning against a cash strapped and mismanaged AMD isn't impressive.

In the GPU market, all it takes is for AMD to release a faster card priced competitively with not so distant power consumption. The 980TI gobbled more power than the Fury X at full speed which indicates that nowadays, it's a game of the framerates. Anyone can watch a review and decide on what is the better buy in seconds. Winning there is all that matters.

I don't think the difference in power consumption between the 1060-480 is anything to scuff about. It's like going from a 970 to a 1060 which is not a sane choice. I don't think 970 users, of which there are very many, are crying about their power consumption. What makes the 1060 successful is that it's faster than the 480 in a good amount of games despite lower power consumption.

Where AMD needs more penetration, arguably more important than the gaming market, is the HPC and workstation market which will be hard due to CUDA but not impossible thanks to boltzmann initiative.
Edited by Tobiman - 4/20/17 at 9:06am
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post #95 of 98
Its as if people in this thread dont know what wonders undervolting polaris in wattman can do, as well as using features like chill (for the 500 series, though it remains to be seen if flashed 480`s can use that), or other pluses like being able to pair a 480 with a freesync screen for cheap (unlike pairing a 1060 with anything g-sync capable)..or you know, being able to crossfire with a second card, unlike the 1060 that doesn`t support sli...or having more vram, better dx12 support, “finewine” which will most likely be the case with polaris vs gtx1060 and above in the long run...need I go on more?

Just because average joe plebs are swayed by word of mouth and mind share, and buy nvidias inferior products (in the low-end product-stack in this case) by the truckload, in no way makes the polaris based 400 or 500 series cards, a bad buy or irrelevant.

Just because a minute fraction of impatient enthusiasts who are part of an incredibly niche and tiny percentage of the market bemoan AMD for not currently having a high and ultra-high end product, doesn`t make them any less relevant as a choice for a prospective customer looking at making a purchase within their budget, which for AMD, just so happens to be currently limited to the low and mid range segments...oh woe is us!! However will we cope?!
post #96 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1 View Post

I think ive said that im talking about their behaviour on stage wink.gif

My bad, thought it was vice versa. Reading comprehension is important wink.gif

Thinking about it makes it even funnier. Both Huang and Jobs have this unique presentation style other desperately tried to copy. Facebook, Microsoft and AMD look so forced whenever they try imitating them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

LoL, please stop, Nvidia is nothing like Apple, winning against a cash strapped and mismanaged AMD isn't impressive.

Judged by their business figures Nvidia has a very good track record. It is not their fault that every AMD management has a tendency for self-influcted harm. Don't forget AMD was once the bigger companies of both. Invention and innovation don't create themselve. Nvidia is pulling alot of money into their success. Even with cash AMD would stray from the path. Whenever they had a vision like "Fusion" or "Bulldozer", it was a major flop in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

In the GPU market, all it takes is for AMD to release a faster card priced competitively with not so distant power consumption. The 980TI gobbled more power than the Fury X at full speed which indicates that nowadays, it's a game of the framerates. Anyone can watch a review and decide on what is the better buy in seconds. Winning there is all that matters.

Fury X had 2GB less, though HBM - where all the power consumption gains came from. I don't want to discuss about this old garbage talk again. We did this over and over. Framerates alone don't win the race anymore. Its loud-/quiteness + power consumption + price + ... (everthing else) as a package. The majority of buyers is not interested in charts or reviews. That is why they are so easy to trick. Right now AMD tries to spoof such customers with their 500-series. They did that Rebranding-strategy quite a few times in the last few years.

Whenever a customer buys such an almost fraudy product, the buyer gets a bitter experience. A single good card might not change that. Price range and features are also important. Looked closely at the current market situation, AMD probably needs an outstanding product to change their reputation. They will win nothing with mixed bags like Tonga, Fiji or Polaris. God alone know what Vega and Nave will become. Volta doesn't have such negatvie baggage in the mindshare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

I don't think the difference in power consumption between the 1060-480 is anything to scuff about. It's like going from a 970 to a 1060 which is not a sane choice. I don't think 970 users, of which there are very many, are crying about their power consumption. What makes the 1060 successful is that it's faster than the 480 in a good amount of games despite lower power consumption.

The 1060 is just a better package without any irregularities. They don't need the biggest coolers to stay cool and quite. Without massive amounts of OC, the power consumption is worlds apart. Look at the latest 570 / 580 reviews. Polaris was never intended for such clocks, but AMD has to raise them to somewhat stay competitive. What do you think a heavily improved now architecture like Volta will do with this kind of competition?

It's just a matter of time before the 1000-series is going EOL in parts and replaced one after another. I don't think Volta will launch before Q3-4 2017, but we shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

Where AMD needs more penetration, arguably more important than the gaming market, is the HPC and workstation market which will be hard due to CUDA but not impossible thanks to boltzmann initiative.

Are you a PR person? That is exactly the nonsense the AMD marketing is spewing day in and out. Your beloved "boltzmann initiative" was founded end of 2015 and has brought as good as nothing since then. Its nothing but a pipedream. If you want to win business customers, you need to deliver top-notch, not medicre to unreliable products and services. AMD has problems in those areas as long as I can remember.

Especially in the HPC and workstation business the power consumption and heat are main important aspects of the product. For AMD there is alot to fix first before they can even think about the big business. Sadly for them, Nvidia is always a few steps ahead. Must be frustrating as hell to see where the money is, but being unable to reach it.
post #97 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

LoL, please stop, Nvidia is nothing like Apple, winning against a cash strapped and mismanaged AMD isn't impressive.

In the GPU market, all it takes is for AMD to release a faster card priced competitively with not so distant power consumption. The 980TI gobbled more power than the Fury X at full speed which indicates that nowadays, it's a game of the framerates. Anyone can watch a review and decide on what is the better buy in seconds. Winning there is all that matters.

I don't think the difference in power consumption between the 1060-480 is anything to scuff about. It's like going from a 970 to a 1060 which is not a sane choice. I don't think 970 users, of which there are very many, are crying about their power consumption. What makes the 1060 successful is that it's faster than the 480 in a good amount of games despite lower power consumption.

Where AMD needs more penetration, arguably more important than the gaming market, is the HPC and workstation market which will be hard due to CUDA but not impossible thanks to boltzmann initiative.


Not to mention AMD does both CPU and GPU, nVidia isn't really in the CPU game anymore, even when they were they were not competing against the 500 ton gorilla in the room...AMD's resources are split in other words

I dont know about power consumption being a huge factor for many people, Thermals? Definitely, tight cases or considerations in climate many folks want a cooler running card. Power consumption? I doubt it. Your average gaming PC still doesn't consume that much juice.. Power consumption comes into play in mobile where you now see full-fat desktop GPUs in laptops but thats not what we're discussing here

I just couldn't justify the Fury X for its price, Its nice AMD pushed the tech out but it just was not ready yet. The 980 Ti was just a better buy period being more consistent.

I have nothing against AMD, Ran AMD CPUs and ATi GPUs in the old days, I would buy a Ryzen 1700X right now if I was building my rig right now even. GPU wise my last AMD experience was abysmal and every time I've gone to buy a new GPU nVidia had the best card in my price range...

Regardless I wouldn't want AMD dead, I want them to pressure nVidia and keep them honest
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post #98 of 98
Thread Starter 
BTW I think UniversityHerald just copied MyDrivers here, it's the same source for this leak. biggrin.gif
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