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[DigiTimes] Coffee Lake (LGA 1151 6C/12T) launching in August - Several 'K' Models Planned - Page 14

post #131 of 190
if i'm dealing with a 65W 4C/8T 7700, I'm not sure what's out there in the horizon that'll warrant even considering an upgrade. Please give me 8C/16T at 95W TDP or a 6C/12T (@4GHz) at 65W and you have me.

Realistically, i'm probably going to have to wait until Cannonlake.
    
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post #132 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaju123 View Post

What percentage of people go this far? like 0.0001% of consumers? You want something that harms the rest of consumers so that you (the 0.0001%) can go about the extreme stuff you do.
I'm sorry, I thought I was on Overclockers.net, not AverageJoeConsumers.net...rolleyes.gif
post #133 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post

I'm going to assume you've not had the pleasure of delidding a chip, running a block directly on the die, and dropping load temps by around 40C in a custom loop? Because its satisfying to say the least.

I remember getting a G3258 to 5Ghz with direct die cooling and it gave my 4770K at 4.8Ghz a good run for its money (In most titles of the time).

What I have heard, direct die's making a difference of like 3C. Delid maybe 20C.

 

I know people with big custom loops and they're still getting meh temps delidded. If bare die is all the difference in the world I would've heard it by now.

   
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post #134 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

What I have heard, direct die's making a difference of like 3C. Delid maybe 20C.

I know people with big custom loops and they're still getting meh temps delidded. If bare die is all the difference in the world I would've heard it by now.
How by now have you not seen people getting atrocious 90C load temps on Kaby Lake and Sky Lake when highly overclocked and at load on the stock IHS? Then people can get anywhere from 20 to 30C decrease in temps just from a Dellid, because the toothpaste application Intel do is pathetic...then couple that with a custom loop with 900+ mm of surface area, high speed fans, high flow loop and blocks, and direct die mount with CLU, and you will see around a 40C (or less, mileage will vary of coarse) drop in load temps from the stock product.

I am speaking from my own experience, obviously not everyone will get a temp drop like that, and very few people even go direct-die with their cooling set-up, the temp decrease from going direct die alone isn't much, but couple it with all the other factors going on in a custom loop, and the temp difference from it and just having the stock IHS is huge.
post #135 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post


How by now have you not seen people getting atrocious 90C load temps on Kaby Lake and Sky Lake when highly overclocked and at load on the stock IHS? Then people can get anywhere from 20 to 30C decrease in temps just from a Dellid, because the toothpaste application Intel do is pathetic...then couple that with a custom loop with 900+ mm of surface area, high speed fans, high flow loop and blocks, and direct die mount with CLU, and you will see around a 40C (or less, mileage will vary of coarse) drop in load temps from the stock product.

I am speaking from my own experience, obviously not everyone will get a temp drop like that, and very few people even go direct-die with their cooling set-up, the temp decrease from going direct die alone isn't much, but couple it with all the other factors going on in a custom loop, and the temp difference from it and just having the stock IHS is huge.

I've seen so many Kaby Lake and Skylake overclocks to the point where I just glaze over them. 30C is really pushing it. And if that ends up being 40C the question is if adding a custom loop and bare die to the equation knocks off another 10-20C. And by 'adding a custom loop to the equation' I obviously don't mean the cooling improvements we would typically get on an un-delidded chip air vs water, right. The idea is that the better thermal transfer of delidding and bare die means it will scale better with better cooling. 

Lots of people speak from experience but if I just took everyone at their word I wouldn't need picture verification and standards on my overclocking charts. I am inherently skeptical. I have a custom loop in planning that will come into fruition. Future delidding results on my end will be from a water cooling perspective. 1-2C gains I have heard being quintupled or more than that is far fetched, so either you or my sources are very wrong.

I have some friends I can ask around for a sanity check.

   
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post #136 of 190
Perhaps the existence of Kaby Lake X 4C /8T is to perhaps potentially unify platforms ie :perhaps in the near future Intel may only have the HEDT platform to milk more money from us and reduce their overall costs, one size fits all so to speak.
Edited by scracy - 4/23/17 at 11:11pm
post #137 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Correction: AMD didn't NOT want to compete with SB, they COULDN'T. BD had already been in development for years before SB launched and they certainly realized (probably long before SB launched) that it would not be competitve with Intel due to its radical new design. Problem was that by the time they came to that realization there was nothing they could do but ride it out and make the best out of it. Can't through away years of R&D, especially when you are cash strapped like AMD is/was. And besides, even had they decided to ditch BD immediately they still couldn't have designed anything new to replace it any more quickly than they did Ryzen as they started developing Zen soon after BD was released anyway. Only thing they COULD have done differently would be to do another revision of PII and try to pressure the industry to further optimize for it. But again they weren't going to throw away all the time and money spent on designing and manufacturing BD just because it was disappointing.

BD was one of the biggest disasters in the history of CPU's (if not the biggest) and it single-handedly took AMD completely out of the CPU game for years and years. Thank God they turned to Keller once they realized how big a disaster they had on their hands and in 2017 we finally have a return of AMD as a viable competitor to Intel again after 6 long and monopolistic years. There is a silver lining to the BD debacle however since Intel long ago became totally complacent and left the door wide open for Ryzen to have a chance. Now it will take some time for Intel to actually get in gear and TRY again in the x86 space so hopefully AMD has an aggressive game plan for the next couple of years post-Ryzen, before Intel leverages their massive money and manpower advantage and comes up with the next SB.

I think Intel is actually planning on decom'ing some old x86 instructions to push the market towards more AVX geared instructions. Only something intel can do with their massive market share. So i guess this fits in the same lines as your "massive manpower advantage"
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post #138 of 190
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post #139 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedmo1 View Post

if i'm dealing with a 65W 4C/8T 7700, I'm not sure what's out there in the horizon that'll warrant even considering an upgrade. Please give me 8C/16T at 95W TDP or a 6C/12T (@4GHz) at 65W and you have me.

Realistically, i'm probably going to have to wait until Cannonlake.

You could always swing an r7 1800x. That's a 4Ghz at 95w.
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post #140 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftstealth View Post

I think Intel is actually planning on decom'ing some old x86 instructions to push the market towards more AVX geared instructions. Only something intel can do with their massive market share. So i guess this fits in the same lines as your "massive manpower advantage"

I need to find it again, but I remember reading a couple of years ago that intel has been "removing" some old instructions and wrapping them using new instructions, in order to save space on the chip.
It is not as effective as keeping them, but they claim that as they see the use of the old instruction diminish, they are accepting the lower performance of the older instructions in order to encourage the move to new ones.
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