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[DigiTimes] Coffee Lake (LGA 1151 6C/12T) launching in August - Several 'K' Models Planned - Page 9

post #81 of 190
There is something very interesting about this article.

X399 was supposedly an overclockable 2P socket perhaps with 2 32 core CPUs. while X390 is a 16 core CPU 1P socket. Perhaps AMD is not releasing an overclockable 2P 32 core socket?

Kind of disappointed if true. I was hoping to see a 2P 32 core socket, but they may have concluded the market is too small, in which case we will have to "settle" for a 16 core 1P HEDT system. I hope that it overclocks well and that AMD releases both.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeeo View Post

Thank you AMD. Maybe next they'll start using solder again instead of pigeon poop between the die and ihs.

One issue - the problem is not the TIM, it is the distance between the die and IHS.

See this:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/delidded-my-i7-3770k-loaded-temperatures-drop-by-20%C2%B0c-at-4-7ghz.2261855/page-23#post-34053183
Quote:

Conclusion: The Intel stock CPU TIM is not the reason Ivy Bridge's run hot, and replacing the Intel stock CPU TIM is not the reason a delidded Ivy Bridge runs so much cooler - the benefits of delidding are entirely due to the resultant reduction in gap height between the CPU silicon die and the underside of the IHS.

But yes, I wish Intel would reduce the gap. It would be very difficult to use solder in such a small die but with a low gap, the benefits would happen.



I'm really interested to see how things go with Zen+.

It's not well known, but if you read between the lines I think that 10nm is slower than 14nm++.



So we're at the limits of silicon where the next process is slower than the larger process.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I say this every time:
Looking for highest single threaded performance. All that's relevant to me is single threaded perf post overclock from gen to gen.

Assuming it's another couple of hundred MHz, 14nm++ might offer some small gains.

The 10nm though as discussed above will be slower. Looking historically, the 3770k wasn't faster than the 2600k and the 4930k was arguably slower than the 3930k. The 14nm Broadwell E did not bring clockspeed gains (actually regressed even factoring in the 2% gains clock for clock) versus Haswell E.

So I see modest gains for new architecture (Ex: a 6700k at 4.6 - 4.8 GHz factoring in the IPC was faster than the 4790K atr 4.7 to 4.9 GHz) and for refreshes (4770K > 4790K, 6700K > 7700K > 8700K?), but not the die shrinks. Oh and improvements in the single digits.






Quote:
Originally Posted by rt123 View Post

Doesn't matter, coz this is Intel we are talking about. They would never let their margins sink so low.


It may be best to look at Prescott vs K8 to consider the price for performance. Prescott signficantly lagged the K8.

Right now in terms of multithreaded performance per dollar (or whatever currency), Intel's Broadwell E is behind.

I think we will see modest lowerings of the price, but I agree that Intel won't lower margins too much unless AMD really hurts their sales. Even then the price lowering may be limited.
Edited by CrazyElf - 4/19/17 at 8:03pm
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post #82 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malinkadink View Post

Pretty sure CL 6 cores will not have an iGPU. With the space that the iGPU takes up on the die it would be perfect to replace it with two additional cores and be able to use the same socket. If they start selling 6 core 12 thread i7s for $350 like the current 4C/8T i7s, have at least a 10% IPC bump from Kabylake and still manage 5ghz OC it would be a really sweet chip.

while that would sure be nice, rather expect the same IPC increase from skylake to kaby lake

or to look at it in a different light

we are able to plug kaby into z170 because the architecture didn't get optimized
but in turn got no IPC increase at all


I take no IPC increase, but being able to plug it into my z170 and being able to OC to 5Ghz

that would be something
12 threads at 5Ghz


on iGPU
I could definitely live without it, on the other hand
having a huge (comparably) cache of eDRAM would be awesome (though ever so unlikely biggrin.gif )
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post #83 of 190
https://newsroom.intel.com/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2017/03/Kaizad-Mistry-2017-Manufacturing.pdf
page 29 has the graph with 10nm+ and 10nm++ included
14nm++ > 10nm+ > 10nm > 14nm+
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post #84 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter2k View Post

while that would sure be nice, rather expect the same IPC increase from skylake to kaby lake

or to look at it in a different light

we are able to plug kaby into z170 because the architecture didn't get optimized
but in turn got no IPC increase at all


I take no IPC increase, but being able to plug it into my z170 and being able to OC to 5Ghz

that would be something
12 threads at 5Ghz


on iGPU
I could definitely live without it, on the other hand
having a huge (comparably) cache of eDRAM would be awesome (though ever so unlikely biggrin.gif )

I would bet there is a 5% ipc increase for kabylake and i am sure intel are starting to feel the heat so they will throw more feature (more instruction set) to make it happen.

They know this will be the chip to suffer the hammer from zen+ so they probably will squeeze more performance per clock this time. If they are still hitting the 5ghz wall from their 14nm node.
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post #85 of 190
Im tired of Intel's BS for a little while, Im loving my Ryzen, will hold on till Ryzen 2 comes next year
post #86 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliXpc View Post

Im tired of Intel's BS for a little while, Im loving my Ryzen, will hold on till Ryzen 2 comes next year

You have to wait for intel to clear their next 5 years of sandbagging cpus first before the real good cpu from them comes out.

That will take 2 years at least, before we will see a "sandy bridge" breakthrough
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post #87 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxidized View Post

lachen.gif

wheee.gif Yeah keep dreaming man
post #88 of 190
AMD sure did shake things up in a hurry with Ryzen! I just can't see buying anything other than a 1700 in 2017 regardless of what Intel releases this year. I mean we all know it will be faster but it will also cost a lot more for less cores while the 1700 is plenty fast enough already and has 8 cores. Intel will not be matching that price/performance anytime soon. Unless there is a 1700X upgrade on the horizon for later this year I'm almost 100% certain to replace my 4930K with a 1700X in 2017.
post #89 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by amd-dude View Post

Looks like AMD finally forced a hand, showing us how much Intel was milking us and sandbagging. Yeah yeah I know they had no reason to cause no competition blah blah but still. No regrets with Ryzen, Intel and nvidia can suck it now, I know it won't make a dent in their market share but they won't be getting my money again, once was enough.
Yeah, until 3-4 years when the situation is once again the same, when people are still just buying nvidia/intel products and after that blaming AMD for not "competing".
post #90 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

You have to wait for intel to clear their next 5 years of sandbagging cpus first before the real good cpu from them comes out.

That will take 2 years at least, before we will see a "sandy bridge" breakthrough

I think this hits at the core of it: we're waiting on the next Sandy Bridge. A performance jump that single-handedly won the consumer enthusiast market and made AMD not even want to compete to get it back. I don't know if such a breakthrough is even possible on silicon as we know how to use it; we're nipping at the edges of what we can do with what we have and how we know to use it. I suspect the next Sandy Bridge will be a bigger innovation and mark a shift away from processors as we're currently familiar with them (revolutionary process, material, or both).
    
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