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[universityherald] NVIDIA Will Unleash Volta-Based GPU (GTX 2080 Series) Soon to Counter AMD Radeon Vega [VIDEO] - Page 15

post #141 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

I actually laugh at the thought of anyone buying a 1080 Ti here in the UK. When the 980 Ti came out you could get them for £550. Now, prices are £800-900 for its successor. It's unfathomable why more of a fuss hasn't been kicked up. What the hell's going on? I mean this is over the space of around 1 year and the prices have gone insane.

Whether it's Nvidia to blame for this or not is not the issue. The fact that the prices have risen incredibly outside the US (and they've risen there too of course) cannot be played down. Having said that, I will never feed into this by buying a higher end Nvidia card at their current prices. I'll either wait for Vega or buy a used 1080 off eBay.

It's called no competition

Lets wait and see what Vega brings
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post #142 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Overstates of the requiremenets is what you have do do anyways. Besides the graphics card there are other components in the system too. Everyones favorite topic the Ryzen X1700 needs 60W at idle alone. At full load it gets pulls about 170W out of the PSU via Mainboard.
Hmm....




40W/150W on an 1800X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techpowerup 
Ryzen is hands down the most energy-efficient performance CPU AMD ever made, and easily outclasses Intel's 14 nm "leadership." Good show.

I don't see why it shouldn't be everyone's favorite topic, or why that might bother you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Now count this together with the 170 to 250W power usage of a Rx580 someone mentioned and it gets to critical mass. There are not even other components like RAM or any storage / media put in here.
Pretty sure I just showed you a 4960X/OC 580 system not even drawing 360W at the wall. The 4960X will pass up Ryzen or more sensible Intel choices in power draw. Also, I'll remind you that wall power draw is not how much the PSU is supplying. AT is using a Corsair AX1200i Platinum efficiency, but still well below the optimal efficiency at 360W. It wouldn't surprise me if the actual power requirements were more in line with 330W or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

It is not about if it doesn't work. The security should go first. Once you run into the limit, the hardware has to shut down or at least clock down. At critical limits there can be hardware damage a.s.o...
A card like the 750 Ti can run this setup "secure" without risk or involvement from the user. There would be enough headroom for powerspikes or sudden high load. I could build you a system with 150W PSU and such a card in there easily. But if we talk about gaming, this is just stretching it to the maximum.
As long as you buy a decent power supply, you're in good shape. Any PSU that can supply 20% more than you expect your max load to be will be fine. Plenty of them can supply more than their sticker too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

And by all love, who is the fool who would go fo ra 4960X class CPU and then get the cheapest China components in the same system? The point was that forum users here recommend such a configuration without worries, although it is bad advice. You have to handpick your hardware for a PC, which 90% of all customers never do. Happends all the time and nobody cares. AMD has generally a problem with heat and power issues since a while. THis is a fact. IF you build a system with AMD hardware, you also have to include this in your build plans.
No one would, obviously. The point is that with a 4960X wall power draw is about as severe as any system with a 580 in it is going to be. Recommending a decent 80+/bronze 450-500W power supply is not bad advice, certainly not for a 480 and almost certainly not for a 580 either. My wall power draw gets to a little over 500W at high FPS gaming. I'm using an OC'ed Titan XP (+117/+358, bit disappointing really) with its power limit unlocked and a 4.7GHz 4790K (up to 1.282V) , and this is with an 80+ Bronze PSU (Corsair TX750). Actual power requirements are likely in the 450W range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Let's spin this scenario through: "What if Vega paries with Pascal"

--> Isn't this actually the worst case scenario already?
Vega comes and is equal or almost as fast as 1080 Ti ... then what? If the Pascal successor Volta comes along within a few months and ups the game again, AMD will stand there without anyting to counter. AMD is no longer in a position where they have a plan B at hand. Until the next architecture Navi comes along to fight Volta, it will be roughly a whole year ... if not more.

I see this as a very dangerous way. We don't only need competition for $350+. AMD has to offer a whole new line-up as soon as Volta cards arrive. I fear AMD is stretching their Radeon line-up more and more each new generation. Skipping out one for over a year is no good sign.
I'd be pretty impressed if Vega does match Pascal, especially if it does so in energy efficiency as well. Worst-case is that its efficiency is Maxwell-like or worse, like 480/470. They'd be in a fine position (not great) if they managed Pascal like-efficiency only a year after its release. It took two years to get there with Maxwell.
Edited by Pyrotagonist - 4/23/17 at 1:44am
post #143 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

I actually laugh at the thought of anyone buying a 1080 Ti here in the UK. When the 980 Ti came out you could get them for £550. Now, prices are £800-900 for its successor. It's unfathomable why more of a fuss hasn't been kicked up. What the hell's going on? I mean this is over the space of around 1 year and the prices have gone insane.

Whether it's Nvidia to blame for this or not is not the issue. The fact that the prices have risen incredibly outside the US (and they've risen there too of course) cannot be played down. Having said that, I will never feed into this by buying a higher end Nvidia card at their current prices. I'll either wait for Vega or buy a used 1080 off eBay.
Where are you seeing 900? Its 750 for cheaper custom models. Although i agree paying 750 for what is an upper mid range chip is funny(or sad).
For comparison GTX680 which was a full chip launched at 430 pounds.Now you're paying £1,179.00 for a full Pascal chip.
Also what makes you think Vega will be significantly cheaper? HBM isn't cheap.
    
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post #144 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohit9206 View Post

Where are you seeing 900? Its 750 for cheaper custom models. Although i agree paying 750 for what is an upper mid range chip is funny(or sad).
For comparison GTX680 which was a full chip launched at 430 pounds.Now you're paying £1,179.00 for a full Pascal chip.
Also what makes you think Vega will be significantly cheaper? HBM isn't cheap.

Arguably, GK104 was the midrange chip and GK 110 was the full fat. As for pricing the 680 against the 1080TI...GK104 was smallish at 300mm with 3.5B transistors, while GP102 is 475mm with 12B transistors.
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post #145 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMack70 View Post

Big Volta is not going to be ready to go this year. Not a chance. So whatever Volta card Nvidia might have ready to go is going to be the midrange chip, which at best might be like 20-30% faster than the 1080 Ti. So if we take "Vega roughly equals 1080 Ti" as the worst case then it still should mean solid competition across the GPU space up to somewhere around the $500-600 mark.

I don't know what Big Volta should be. You probably mean some 500-600mm² chip sized behemoth like the GP100 / 102 is right now. To be honest I am not even sure if this 12nm half-step node of TSMC is capable doing such big chips. But a GV104 with 40-60% better overall performance in comparison to todays Pascal GTX 1070 and 1080 are surely possible. The new Volta midrange would be once again faster than the old High-end line-up.

Like I said, I doubt a Vega card with equal performance to 1080Ti would be any real competition. If it is true that AMD brings a 500mm² 8GB HBM2 card, a Nvidia midrange chip in the rougbly 300mm3 like GP104 would totally destroy that product in every metric. Bandwidth alone doesn't matter here, as we have seen how limited the applications were with old Fiji / Fury cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMack70 View Post

That's a lot better than what we've had the past couple years, and it provides competition for the vast majority of consumers... not many people are in the market for $600+ graphics cards. I am not optimistic at all about AMD's chances to surpass Pascal with Vega; I think that's a fantasy at best.

The more I hear about Vega, the higher my doubts rise. The increased workstation focus is not ringing nice in my ears. It's doubtful AMD has enough money to develop a produc for consumer and business customers with their limited ressources. Maybe they concentrate on the business segment where the money is and neclect the gamers for a while. This tactic would make economic sense, but the gamers will hate them for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

IF they using 12nm and its quite small chip with 10-15% leap from TXFP.

Coming from a GTX 1080 this seems about right. Pascal to Volta is said to bring up to 40% performance increase alone. Memory and other features are not in there. Will be hell of alot fun to read what is actually under the hood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Most likely they would price it lower at $600. Still, its a hole in most people pocket.

A $600 2080 is not that expensive. I am more afraid the will bring the 700-800 Euro hammer for this model again. To me the 2070 and 2060 are the real upcoming stars. I hope so much Nvidia doesn't get greedy and take over 300 for the x60 and over 450 bucks again for a GTX x70 model.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 4/23/17 at 5:15am
post #146 of 198
good, used 1080 prices will drop wink.gif
post #147 of 198
I don't see this happening due to recent upgrades in 1060/1080 and release of Ti but would be great if it happened.
post #148 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowarez View Post

tahtd be $600 before retailers get there greedy hands on em and bump another 50-100% mark up, nothing is ever sold for what its supposed msrp in histroy, easiest way to ready the Suggested Prices ad another $250-$400 to there top end cards and about $100-$150 mid range prices,


50% - 100% mark up is $900-1200 USD.


I doubt that is the case. Furthermore worst come to worst u can order from Nvidia store
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post #149 of 198
yuck id rather go with evga or msi only if there coolers get a cood review, id LOVE a GALAX but cant get em up here, without great expense.
post #150 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1 View Post

good, used 1080 prices will drop wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelius View Post

I don't see this happening due to recent upgrades in 1060/1080 and release of Ti but would be great if it happened.

I don' expect any bargains either. Since the last price drop, the 2nd hand models haven't moved a single cent. Before potential Volta replacements rol lin in ... my guess between October and December 2017 ... nothing will happen here.

A real pitty, I would have eyed a price cut of the 1070, but the prices have hardly been touched. The closer Volta comes, the less interesting Pascal gets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

50% - 100% mark up is $900-1200 USD.


I doubt that is the case. Furthermore worst come to worst u can order from Nvidia store

Nah, Nvidia stretched the prices quite a bit since the 1080 and upwards. More than 700-800 for AIB custom cards is not possible in my opinion. No matter what Vega brings, it is at least a little competition. If Nvidia overdoes it, some buyers might even jump to a weaker card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowarez View Post

yuck id rather go with evga or msi only if there coolers get a cood review, id LOVE a GALAX but cant get em up here, without great expense.

Lately I haven't been that picky about vendor anymore. The cheaper ones have stepped up their quality game and are real alternatives. Personally wished they had more ITX models. The Zotac 1080 Mini could get some company. ITX cases like mine don't like the oversized cards. I so desperately hope Volta will bring more variety. Expect Zotac, Asus and maybe Gigabyte, no vendor is interested in this segment. Yet there is a huge market to feed for such cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post

It's called no competition

Lets wait and see what Vega brings

I have given up to see Vega as competition. This arch got delayed so often, it gets more and more doubtful it will ever be a hit. Even if Vega finally hits the market some day, it is still unclear which arch it actually competes with. I smell a repeat of the Fiji flop, just with new HBM2. AMD has to either top their performance / watt game, which is unlikely looking at Polaris 2.0 or the Vega models have to be dirt cheap ... which yet again hurts AMD financially.

The only positive effect Vega could have is to keep the prices of old Pascal lower than we see them now. Question is how long Nvidia will have the 1000-series until it goes EOL and completely replaced.
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