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[BenchLife] Intel Core™ X-Series - announcement in a month, launch June 26 - comes in 4C, 6C, 8C, 10C and 12C models - Page 8

post #71 of 187
I'll pay for a platform that works...

X299 has all the bases covered, too. Can't wait!
post #72 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Supposedly it's for AVX-512, and that could also explain the reduced L3 cache (13.75MB apparently) as well since each core has more L2 available.
If AVX 512 would melt CPUs like AVX2, then it will be better without AVX. Frankly not everyone is using servers, and HPC is done better on GFX cards than on AVX2. When you need CPU you often needs low granularity and fast RAM access. I doubt DDR4 have small latencies to deliver, and I suspect it would be better when Intel would use 128 MB L3 than that tinny amount.

As is it will compete with 32 MB L3 Ryzen. And if AMD would remedy low bandwidth fabric before release, it might get nasty for Intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L36 View Post

I'm curious how increase L2 cache of the X skylake will compare with mainstream skylake in various workloads. Other than that this seems like a boring launch, though if Intel comes to their senses and prices competitively with AMD it might get interesting.
Quadrupling L1 would probably work well. It has very nice throughput and works well with emulation.
Edited by Raghar - 4/22/17 at 11:01am
post #73 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

If AVX 512 would melt CPUs like AVX2, then it will be better without AVX.

No, because they'd need to release entirely new SKUs with AVX 512 implemented for the users who do need or want it. If you aren't using AVX 512 instructions then it can't really melt anything since, well, the instructions for it aren't being fed.

Quote:
Frankly not everyone is using servers, and HPC is done better on GFX cards than on AVX2.

Two things wrong here. One, microprocessor design is both expensive and time-consuming. You aren't using a server, but server users get the same silicon. Intel has no reason to divide their market to cater to HEDT users when cut-down server chips are equally good. Two, GPUs are very good at some kinds of tasks, but not all. Additionally, programming for them isn't nearly as easy as it is for CPUs. There's a reason we haven't just replaced FPUs with integrated graphics (although that would be kinda neat).

Quote:
When you need CPU you often needs low granularity and fast RAM access. I doubt DDR4 have small latencies to deliver, and I suspect it would be better when Intel would use 128 MB L3 than that tinny amount.

Easy: money. Processors generally use 6T SRAM for cache, meaning each bit contains a gate with 6 transistors. Each byte therefore has 48. 128MB would have exactly 6,442,450,944 transistors dedicated just to storing data. 24-core Broadwell-EX is a 456mm2 die with an estimated 7.2 billion transistors. With up to 60MB of L3 cache, nearly half (~3.0 billion) of all the transistors in that one piece of silicon go to L3, to say nothing of the 320kiB L1 and L2 per core (another ~0.4 billion). Doubling that would probably increase the die size by 50%, castrating yields and also reducing the chips per wafer by minimum a third.

But you are correct, DRAM isn't exactly fast. My 5775C (that I bought because I'm good with money) has an L1 latency of 1ns, L2 latency of 4ns, L3 latency of 14ns, and both DDR3 and eDRAM latencies of 68ns. But increasing L3 doesn't necessarily decrease latency. If it's done poorly you could incur more cache misses than before. It's not that simple, and I wish I could explain it better but the guy who lectured me about how cache actually works thinks it's witchcraft lol.
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post #74 of 187
cache is witchcraft
post #75 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

How come up to Ryzen this whole ECC was not relevant for home use and now all of a sudden it is? ECC memory is still at a disadvantage compared to normal memory and does not clock as well. When everyone here on OCN starts running stuff for the CIA or DOJ, then I will understand the need for ECC, but this is an OC board with people who build machines for gaming, editing, pretty much any activity where ECC memory has no tangible benefits.
Well you can't account for or generalize almost half a million members in OCN on what they do with their systems. Gaming community may be a large part of it but still people who buy HEDT platform solely for gaming purpose are outnumbered by huge margin by other hardcore gamers who don't own HEDT type computers at all. Although I agree number of gamers with HEDT system may be higher than users who need/want ECC based system, but then again it all comes down to the fact that ECC support in desktop has not been available widely at all until now. If AMD provided option for it (slightly unstable for now I agree), it will obviously open opportunities for many who couldn't use that feature for years due to cost or other complexities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

Are we using ECC as a way to throw dirt on INTEL's new products?
Then I can say the same for AVX/AVX2 that has been advertized so much despite very significant and frequently used general purpose apps still don't utilize that wide SIMD units at all.
Serioulsy, I mean it doesn't hurt to show the features that truly exist in here, no exaggeration done in here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

Are we still that naïve in thinking that AMD has an influence on the market?
With RyZen's launch and the potential it has regarding future performance inprovements and CPU support, your sentence become obsolete as of now. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

If INTEL deems that the consumer needs ECC at home, they will add it to the package. Until then, AMD is a little fish with no say in this.
Or may be, just may be because there was no overall attractive competition until now, Intel chose to not let that kind of sweet be consumed by consumers ?

P.S. I apologize for the rude behavior if there was any, in any of my previous posts.

Well I am truely interested to know the pricing of these upcoming Intel HEDT though.

Until Intel starts losing money because of AMD, there is no competition. I would think at this point that Intel's company entertainment budget is bigger than AMD's R&D budget.
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post #76 of 187
you guys gotta pay attention to the high end supercomputer or data center market. we're small potatoes here compared to that kinda volume.
post #77 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

Until Intel starts losing money because of AMD, there is no competition.
Wow, You definitely are not saying so on behalf of real consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

I would think at this point that Intel's company entertainment budget is bigger than AMD's R&D budget.
That is so sad because then it makes Intel more incompetent as compared to AMD if we look at the performance difference between the two.
    
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post #78 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

How come up to Ryzen this whole ECC was not relevant for home use and now all of a sudden it is? ECC memory is still at a disadvantage compared to normal memory and does not clock as well. When everyone here on OCN starts running stuff for the CIA or DOJ, then I will understand the need for ECC, but this is an OC board with people who build machines for gaming, editing, pretty much any activity where ECC memory has no tangible benefits.

Are we using ECC as a way to throw dirt on INTEL's new products? Are we still that naïve in thinking that AMD has an influence on the market? If INTEL deems that the consumer needs ECC at home, they will add it to the package. Until then, AMD is a little fish with no say in this.

Give AMD time to get back to their glory days and mean something in the IT world and then they can push ECC with loads of support. Until then, stop making ECC happen for consumers, it won't happen tongue.gif!

Intel's lack of ECC on consumer chips amounts to petty segmentation with Intel taking away a feature that is useful to some people just because they can. There is absolutely no good reason to remove it. Intel does it to differentiate the 1P Xeon, nothing more. They'd be better off to combine the two families like AMD has done, where Ryzen is used for both consumer and enterprise usage scenarios. At the very least, Intel's top consumer SKUs like the Extreme Edition and other flagship SKUs (7700K, etc) should have it enabled.

You say ECC has no tangible benefits? I disagree. Not everyone overclocks and some of those people would be interested in greater reliability. My iTX mini-server is a backup machine and has its E5-1680 V3 overclocked to a nice even 4.0GHz across all cores. It also uses 2x32GB RDIMMs. Overclocking and ECC do NOT have to be mutually exclusive. In any event the user should have the choice whether or not they want to use ECC and shouldn't be hamstrung because the CPU manufacturer feels like ignorantly taking away as many features as they can.
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post #79 of 187
Why should i ditch my X99/Xeon 6c for this ?
post #80 of 187
Thanks Intel but a 219 dollar Zen 6 Core at 4ghz will do just fine till that sweet sweet 16 core arrives. Days of paying your BS prices are over
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [BenchLife] Intel Core™ X-Series - announcement in a month, launch June 26 - comes in 4C, 6C, 8C, 10C and 12C models