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upgrade to z87 now or wait for z170 later?

post #1 of 13
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I am thinking about buying a another mobo but I dont know if the Asrock z87 OC Formula has a PLX to support 4 Way GPUs, or if i should spend 100% more thna the asrock price and see if I cna find a cheap quality z170 with 4 PCie, and buy ram(DDR4) and CPU(and a cheap placeholder)
  
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post #2 of 13
It lacks the PLX. That mobo can only run 3 cards at x8/x4/x4 at pcie 3.0 speed. That bottom slot is pcie 2.0x4 but maybe it's possible to still run 4-way crossfire. You should pull up some site reviews for that mobo. I believe there were several site reviews for that mobo.

EDIT:

Here are a couple of reviews...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7167/asrock-z87-oc-formulaac-review/9

http://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/luke-hill/asrock-z87-oc-formula-motherboard-review/

Hope this is helpful biggrin.gif
Edited by drBlahMan - 4/22/17 at 7:24pm
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post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBlahMan View Post

It lacks the PLX. That mobo can only run 3 cards at x8/x4/x4 at pcie 3.0 speed. That bottom slot is pcie 2.0x4 but maybe it's possible to still run 4-way crossfire. You should pull up some site reviews for that mobo. I believe there were several site reviews for that mobo.

EDIT:

Here are a couple of reviews...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7167/asrock-z87-oc-formulaac-review/9

http://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/luke-hill/asrock-z87-oc-formula-motherboard-review/

Hope this is helpful biggrin.gif
would you go with a z87 now for half what is the z170 price or go with z170 later?
  
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post #4 of 13
That really depends on what you have to work with. If you have to buy everything, then you might be better off going broadwell-e for the extra PCIe lanes.

Is there a reason why you're saying z87? You can still use DDR3 with z97 and the Devil's Canyon chips are still good.
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post #5 of 13
Asrock Z87 OC Formula does not have a PLX 8747.


I'd say wait unless you can get a good deal on a Z170 used or Z270 board.

The following Z170 boards have a PLX Chip:

  • Asus Z170 WS
  • Gigabyte Z170 SOC Force
  • Gigabyte Z170 Gaming G1 (only the gaming G1)
  • EVGA Z170 Classified

I do not recommend the Z170 WS as it has not had BIOS updates and IIRC the EVGA Z170 had some BIOS issues. The Gigabyte Z170s had a few issues, but I think the BIOS has matured. Ask the Z170 SOC Force thread about this.


Amongst the Z270 boards:

  • Asrock Z270 Supercarrier
  • Gigabyte Z270 Gaming 9


They never made a Z270 Classified (probably due to lack of sales) and the Z270 WS does not have a PLX IIRC).


Another option for the cheapest:

  • MSI Z97 Xpower has a PLX (Z87 Xpower does too, but be aware it is XL ATX)
  • Gigabyte Z87 SOC Force
  • Asus Z87 and Z97 WS both support IIRC, but I am not sure how good their BIOS updates are
  • I think EVGA Z87 and Z97 Classified both do, but I have doubts about their BIOS quality

With Z87 Devil's Canyon you will need a BIOS flash though.











To be honest, I think that given the price of top end mainstream boards, you should:

  • Consider buying a X299 + Skylake E solution
  • Consider buying an AMD X399 + Ryzen E solution (it will be better in terms of multi-threaded and worse in single threaded, but likely a good value)
  • If money is very tight, the release of these boards will lead to people selling their X99 + Haswell E systems ( many sold their X79 when X99 came out)

The advantage there is that you get more cores (5820k and its likely Skylake equal don't cost that much more than a 4790K and I bet the Skylake 6 core won't either. You could go with the Skylake equal of the 5930k as well for all 40 lanes. No idea what the AMD Ryzen E will look like but at least 32 PCIe lanes is expected.
Edited by CrazyElf - 4/22/17 at 9:34pm
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post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk View Post

That really depends on what you have to work with. If you have to buy everything, then you might be better off going broadwell-e for the extra PCIe lanes.

Is there a reason why you're saying z87? You can still use DDR3 with z97 and the Devil's Canyon chips are still good.
because the mobo is almost half a new entry level z170/270
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

I'd say wait unless you can get a good deal on a Z170 used or Z270 board.

The following Z170 boards have a PLX Chip:

  • Asus Z170 WS
  • Gigabyte Z170 SOC Force
  • Gigabyte Z170 Gaming G1 (only the gaming G1)
  • EVGA Z170 Classified

I do not recommend the Z170 WS as it has not had BIOS updates and IIRC the EVGA Z170 had some BIOS issues. The Gigabyte Z170s had a few issues, but I think the BIOS has matured. Ask the Z170 SOC Force thread about this.


Amongst the Z270 boards:

  • Asrock Z270 Supercarrier
  • Gigabyte Z270 Gaming 9


They never made a Z270 Classified (probably due to lack of sales) and the Z270 WS does not have a PLX IIRC).


Another option for the cheapest:

  • MSI Z97 Xpower has a PLX (Z87 Xpower does too, but be aware it is XL ATX)
  • Gigabyte Z87 SOC Force
  • Asus Z87 and Z97 WS both support IIRC, but I am not sure how good their BIOS updates are
  • I think EVGA Z87 and Z97 Classified both do, but I have doubts about their BIOS quality

With Z87 Devil's Canyon you will need a BIOS flash though.











To be honest, I think that given the price you should:

  • Consider buying a X299 + Skylake E solution
  • Consider buying an AMD X399 + Ryzen E solution (it will be better in terms of multi-threaded and worse in single threaded, but likely a good value)
  • If money is very tight, the release of these boards will lead to people selling their X99 + Haswell E systems ( many sold their X79 when X99 came out)

The advantage there is that you get more cores (5820k and its likely Skylake equal don't cost that much more than a 4790K and I bet the Skylake 6 core won't either. You could go with the Skylake equal of the 5930k as well for all 40 lanes. No idea what the AMD Ryzen E will look like but at least 32 PCIe lanes is expected.

I am ok with x4x4x4x4 3.0 for z170, but since I cna get the z87 OC Formula cheap that is why i am compariing
  
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post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

because the mobo is almost half a new entry level z170/270
I am ok with x4x4x4x4 3.0 for z170, but since I cna get the z87 OC Formula cheap that is why i am compariing


This can work, but the 4th GPU will go through the PCH . See page 34 on the manual.
http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Manual/Z87%20OC%20Formula.pdf



So:
  • GPU 1: PCIe x3.0 x8
  • GPU 2: PCIe x3.0 x4
  • GPU 3: PCIe x3.0 x4
  • GPU 4: PCIe x2.0 x4 (through the PCH)


There may be latency penalties and certainly will be performance penalties for the fourth GPU.


I have not tested 4 way without a PLX, and would recommend getting a PLX board. Personally I can recommend the MSI Z87 and Z97 XPower as I've owned the Z87 XPower, but don't have as much experience on the other PLX Haswell boards.
Edited by CrazyElf - 4/22/17 at 9:45pm
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post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

This can work, but the 4th GPU will go through the PCH . See page 34 on the manual.
http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Manual/Z87%20OC%20Formula.pdf



So:
  • GPU 1: PCIe x3.0 x8
  • GPU 2: PCIe x3.0 x4
  • GPU 3: PCIe x3.0 x4
  • GPU 4: PCIe x2.0 x4 (through the PCH)


There may be latency penalties and certainly will be performance penalties for the fourth GPU.


I have not tested 4 way without a PLX, and would recommend getting a PLX board. Personally I can recommend the MSI Z87 and Z97 XPower as I've owned the Z87 XPower, but don't have as much experience on the other PLX Haswell boards.
the thing is where I fit a XL ATX mobo
  
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post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

the thing is where I fit a XL ATX mobo

You would need a case for it:

At least 10 PCIe slots (10 because you will need the 4th slot to have a GPU) that is wide enough to support e-ATX.

See these:
http://www.overclock.net/t/848643/xl-atx-cases/0_100
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/fulmo-gt-thor-v2-vh6000bws,review-32322-8.html


Case Labs has some 10 PCIe versions of their case as does Lian Li.

Alternatively, Z97 XPower is normal eATX sized so that may be your best bet or the eATX sized Gigabyte Z87 SOC Force.
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post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

You would need a case for it:

At least 10 PCIe slots (10 because you will need the 4th slot to have a GPU) that is wide enough to support e-ATX.

See these:
http://www.overclock.net/t/848643/xl-atx-cases/0_100
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/fulmo-gt-thor-v2-vh6000bws,review-32322-8.html


Case Labs has some 10 PCIe versions of their case as does Lian Li.

Alternatively, Z97 XPower is normal eATX sized so that may be your best bet or the eATX sized Gigabyte Z87 SOC Force.
or the OC Formula
  
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