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From 2500k@4.8ghz to Ryzen 1600 ? worth it ? - Page 2

post #11 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberkick View Post

In terms of motherboard what would you recommend ?

I have three in mind:

- MSI X370 Krait 175€
- Asus X370 Prime 187€
- Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 240€

As ram I'm thinking about these Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16

Asus has nice Ti NexFET VRM's. The Krait uses Nikos (not recommended), but the Gaming 5 seems to have some decent VRM's under the HS.

RAM should be stuck with low CAS GSkill, which uses Samsung B-Die IC's. I know they're expensive but this is what I recommend:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232530&cm_re=Flare_X_3200-_-20-232-530-_-Product

VRM Info: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
    
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post #12 of 79
After finding out that Intel's Coffee Lake (1151 platform) is being released later this year & it might be compatible with the Z270 motherboards, you should hold out with the 2500k & see what happens. If you're craving to upgrade, you can alway upgrade your gpu first whistle.gif
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post #13 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaman_90 View Post

Good to meet a fellow Reaper user! I think the upgrade alone is worth it for Reaper and Adobe Affer Effects alone. VSTs use a lot of CPU so you will see a definite improvement there. I had my Phenom II X3 720 completely pegged on all cores yesterday with 32 tracks with VSTs on reaper. Ugghhh the stutter....!

Gaming will be better, but not to a ridiculous degree especially with that OC on your 2500k. If its gaming you want to upgrade I think a GPU is a better idea.

Actually I'd like to freshen up my rig when I have the opportunity.

I'm not especially looking to great improvements in gaming, as long as the R5 1600 will be better than me 2500k@4.8Ghz it's ok (but how mch better really ?) but I guess the improvements with other softwares should be quite significant if I upgrade.
I guess if I wanted both gamning + workstation improvements I should go with an i7 7700k but the total cost for both platform would be:

- i7 7700k = 387€
- Asus Z270 Prime = 169€
- Corsair 16gb 3200Mhz = 161
Total = 717€

- R5 1600 = 255€
- Asus Prime X370 = 187€
- FlareX 16gb 3200mhz = 230€ OR TridentZ 3200mhz = 167€ (but the price of that latter one may be wrong becaue on the website the price for the tridentZ 3000mz is 211€...)
Total = 672€ with the better ram OR 619€

A difference of 92€ or 45€ with the better ram. So at the end it's not a big difference in price, unless I'd go really cheap on both motherboard and ram with the ryzen to increase that gap...
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post #14 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberkick View Post

Actually I'd like to freshen up my rig when I have the opportunity.

I'm not especially looking to great improvements in gaming, as long as the R5 1600 will be better than me 2500k@4.8Ghz it's ok (but how mch better really ?) but I guess the improvements with other softwares should be quite significant if I upgrade.
I guess if I wanted both gamning + workstation improvements I should go with an i7 7700k but the total cost for both platform would be:

- i7 7700k = 387€
- Asus Z270 Prime = 169€
- Corsair 16gb 3200Mhz = 161
Total = 717€

- R5 1600 = 255€
- Asus Prime X370 = 187€
- FlareX 16gb 3200mhz = 230€ OR TridentZ 3200mhz = 167€ (but the price of that latter one may be wrong becaue on the website the price for the tridentZ 3000mz is 211€...)
Total = 672€ with the better ram OR 619€

A difference of 92€ or 45€ with the better ram. So at the end it's not a big difference in price, unless I'd go really cheap on both motherboard and ram with the ryzen to increase that gap...

Just go with r5 1600. Both Kaby Lake and Ryzen are within 4% in IPC to each other, with the Kaby Lakes being able to OC quite a bit to 4.7-4.8 ghz, true, but consider this:

It may be, for the price of the 7700k it gets you:
4c/8t, 4% better ipc, 20% better OC headroom (taps out around 4.8 with a few lucky 5 ghz), and that's 25% better ST performance.

But, Ryzen is no slouch in ST either, at its 4 ghz cap it can still hold its own in ST performance, more akin to Broadwell IPC, which again, is 4% less IPC than the Lakes.

However..... this 25% better ST is overshadowed by the 100% more cores and threads if comparing R7 1700 to 7700k, and even comparing r5 1600 to 7700k, that's $219 vs $350 of 7700k, and even there it has 50% more cores and threads.

Total CPU capability is higher on the Ryzens for their price vs the Intels in the respective price range. To get anything near a OCed $329 R7 1700, that's $1000 for a Broadwell-E 6900k, or for R5 1600, it's $419 for the 6800k intel hexacore.


That ST advantage isn't really worth the premium when the MT overshadows that difference pretty fast for the price.

AMD's Ryzen and Intel's Lakes are the closest to each other in competitive IPC since the Athlon XP days.
     
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post #15 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

Just go with r5 1600. Both Kaby Lake and Ryzen are within 4% in IPC to each other, with the Kaby Lakes being able to OC quite a bit to 4.7-4.8 ghz, true, but consider this:

It may be, for the price of the 7700k it gets you:
4c/8t, 4% better ipc, 20% better OC headroom (taps out around 4.8 with a few lucky 5 ghz), and that's 25% better ST performance.

But, Ryzen is no slouch in ST either, at its 4 ghz cap it can still hold its own in ST performance, more akin to Broadwell IPC, which again, is 4% less IPC than the Lakes.

However..... this 25% better ST is overshadowed by the 100% more cores and threads if comparing R7 1700 to 7700k, and even comparing r5 1600 to 7700k, that's $219 vs $350 of 7700k, and even there it has 50% more cores and threads.

Total CPU capability is higher on the Ryzens for their price vs the Intels in the respective price range. To get anything near a OCed $329 R7 1700, that's $1000 for a Broadwell-E 6900k, or for R5 1600, it's $419 for the 6800k intel hexacore.


That ST advantage isn't really worth the premium when the MT overshadows that difference pretty fast for the price.

AMD's Ryzen and Intel's Lakes are the closest to each other in competitive IPC since the Athlon XP days.

Thanks for your post.

But that's the issue, looking a second time to the ram recommendations I got here I realised I checked the wrong ram (wrong timing) and the ones recommendend would make an Ryzen 5 1600 upgrade actually more expensive than an I7 upgrade. And in that case I feel the Ryzen 5 completely loses its bang for the bucks value.
So either I go Ryzen 5 with "cheaper" ram, higher timing or lower frequency, or I go i7 where I'll have more freedom with the ram. If expensive ram is required to get the ryzen to really shine compared to my i5 2500k...
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post #16 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberkick View Post

Thanks for your post.

But that's the issue, looking a second time to the ram recommendations I got here I realised I checked the wrong ram (wrong timing) and the ones recommendend would make an Ryzen 5 1600 upgrade actually more expensive than an I7 upgrade. And in that case I feel the Ryzen 5 completely loses its bang for the bucks value.
So either I go Ryzen 5 with "cheaper" ram, higher timing or lower frequency, or I go i7 where I'll have more freedom with the ram. If expensive ram is required to get the ryzen to really shine compared to my i5 2500k...

my 1600 rig cost me, around 480 euro with 16gb ram.
basically a Intel rig would cost me 750euro+
ram cost more than my mboard sigh
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post #17 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberkick View Post

Thanks for your post.

But that's the issue, looking a second time to the ram recommendations I got here I realised I checked the wrong ram (wrong timing) and the ones recommendend would make an Ryzen 5 1600 upgrade actually more expensive than an I7 upgrade. And in that case I feel the Ryzen 5 completely loses its bang for the bucks value.
So either I go Ryzen 5 with "cheaper" ram, higher timing or lower frequency, or I go i7 where I'll have more freedom with the ram. If expensive ram is required to get the ryzen to really shine compared to my i5 2500k...

2666 MHz ram is fine, and you can save dosh on ram that way. Most of the improvements come at 2666 MHz, yes 3200 MHz is better but its not the same difference compared to going from 2133 MHz to 2666 MHz.

2666 MHz is also officially supported for single rank 16gb ram, 8gb two sticks on all Ryzens.

Timing is not as important, the frequency is. The timing could be crap for all I care, as long as you get 2666 or 3200 MHz to make the infinity fabric faster between the two CCXs on ryzen.
Edited by ChronoBodi - 4/27/17 at 8:44am
     
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post #18 of 79
Don't break the bank to get faster memory, 2666 like he said is still better than 21333. Over time your mother board might support higher frequencies, or it might not; but at least you don't blow $200 on a memory kit that isn't guaranteed to work.
post #19 of 79
RAM prices are so all over the place now that 3000 was actually cheaper than any of the 2133/2666 kits over here.
post #20 of 79
I would also say look at b350 boards as they can save you even more cash and with the oc ceiling you gain very little for the extra money. If you need SLI or the extra ports and will use from the get go that's one thing but otherwise B350 boards are more than capable.

My 1700 and B350 Gaming 3 are rocking! Oh and I used the saved cash basically to just get the better ram.

ASUS B350 Prime plus 99 Euros

MSI Tomahawk 100 Euros

GB Gaming 3117 Euros though I don't it's worth the extra money compared to the other two's better value.
Edited by Junkboy - 4/27/17 at 12:50pm
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