Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Guru3D] SK Hynix Launches Fastest 8Gb Graphics DRAM (GDDR6) - Adopted by 2018
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Guru3D] SK Hynix Launches Fastest 8Gb Graphics DRAM (GDDR6) - Adopted by 2018 - Page 3

post #21 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonnin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarble View Post

This^^^ We all know there are going to be faster cards in the pipeline. To circle back to the main point here is that while gddr memory continues to make gains in speed and therefore bandwidth power useage has been getting out of control. I would be very interested in knowing the power draw on the new chips.

Yup, new GPU generations still seem to outpace CPUs.

I still don't get all the crap NV gets when AMD released a whole new series with a BIOS update. To me thats so much worse.

You must be new here.

The 3200 posts and join date seem to contradict that, but there is simply no other explanation on how you think the R9-500 series is the first to do that *cough390Xcough770cough* or that it's somehow an AMD exclusive.

There is also no other explanation on how you think a rebrand/refresh is worse than the things nVidia has been doing lately besides potentially just not reading any news articles on OCN. 970 anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

Funny how all these new things appear when HBM was the tech of the future biggrin.gif. Yet again, AMD has no power here and NVIDIA is pushing for tech where they do not need to pay royalties to AMD.

AMD doesn't get royalties, it's a JEDEC standard. And nVidia does use HBM.

Either way Samsung announced GDDR6 for 2018 back in August and Micron in February, soooooooooo this isn't actually news aside from Hynix joining the game which we all knew they would.

GDDR6 is not impressive btw, the only thing it has going for it over HBM2 is >16GB VRAM. It ties or loses in every other metric.
Edited by KyadCK - 4/24/17 at 7:17am
Forge
(16 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
Forge
(16 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You must be new here.

The 3200 posts and join date seem to contradict that, but there is simply no other explanation on how you think the R9-500 series is the first to do that *cough390Xcough770cough* or that it's somehow an AMD exclusive.

There is also no other explanation on how you think a rebrand/refresh is worse than the things nVidia has been doing lately besides potentially just not reading any news articles on OCN. 970 anyone?
AMD doesn't get royalties, it's a JEDEC standard. And nVidia does use HBM.

Either way Samsung announced GDDR6 for 2018 back in August and Micron in February, soooooooooo this isn't actually news aside from Hynix joining the game which we all knew they would.

GDDR6 is not impressive btw, the only thing it has going for it over HBM2 is >16GB VRAM. It ties or loses in every other metric.

Besides cost. In a segment devoid of massive bandwidth constraints
post #23 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Scone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You must be new here.

The 3200 posts and join date seem to contradict that, but there is simply no other explanation on how you think the R9-500 series is the first to do that *cough390Xcough770cough* or that it's somehow an AMD exclusive.

There is also no other explanation on how you think a rebrand/refresh is worse than the things nVidia has been doing lately besides potentially just not reading any news articles on OCN. 970 anyone?
AMD doesn't get royalties, it's a JEDEC standard. And nVidia does use HBM.

Either way Samsung announced GDDR6 for 2018 back in August and Micron in February, soooooooooo this isn't actually news aside from Hynix joining the game which we all knew they would.

GDDR6 is not impressive btw, the only thing it has going for it over HBM2 is >16GB VRAM. It ties or loses in every other metric.

Besides cost. In a segment devoid of massive bandwidth constraints

Your same argument could be said for GDDR5(X) vs GDDR6 as well. They're charging you $700+, whether it has HBM or GDDR6 does not make a difference in your costs, only theirs.
Forge
(16 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
Forge
(16 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

An architecture is only the rough layout of the components. There are different patterns like you already described. Compare current Pascal GPUs. Workstaion GP100 is HBM2 with a different memory controller. GP102 of the Titan XP / 1080 Ti is GDDR5X.

To this point it is not clear what memory configuration Volta will exactly use. If the scheme of Pasal repeats then the biggests Volta will have HBM2 and the rest either GDDR5X again or the new GDDR6 in the news. The config should depend on the class of the card.

All in all this change will bring a nice jump. Comin from 9 -> 11 Gbps in the smaller perfromance classes and from 11 -> 16 Gbps is godly.


Please do not expect such godly jump within a short time span. 12Gbps from Micron have yet to be utilised.


TBH we will see a 12Gbps first before we start seeing 14 & 16 rated speed. They will be slowly stepping up while they rolled out more and more powerful GPUs. HBM will mostly likely be Titan Exclusive, which could be based on GV100, GV110



16GB HBM2 Titan Volta, 12GB G5X (12gpbs) GTX 2080 will be my best bet at this point.
Project Frostbite
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7-6800K OC 4.2GHz @ 1.28 Vcore ASUS X99 Sabertooth Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11G Corsair Vengeance White LED 4x8GB DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 850 1TB Corsair H100i V2 AiO Window 10 64-Bits Home Premium Acer Predator XB271HU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Spectrum Mechanical Keyboard (Blue Switc... Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Gold Phantek Enthoo Pro Full Acrylic Black Razer Diamondback 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
Audio Engine A2+ Speaker Audio Engine D1 DAC Audio Engine S8 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Project Frostbite
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7-6800K OC 4.2GHz @ 1.28 Vcore ASUS X99 Sabertooth Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11G Corsair Vengeance White LED 4x8GB DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 850 1TB Corsair H100i V2 AiO Window 10 64-Bits Home Premium Acer Predator XB271HU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Spectrum Mechanical Keyboard (Blue Switc... Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Gold Phantek Enthoo Pro Full Acrylic Black Razer Diamondback 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
Audio Engine A2+ Speaker Audio Engine D1 DAC Audio Engine S8 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

It very much still is. If there weren't manufacturing issues in the way, you'd be seeing HBM2 being used on high end graphics products right now. HBM1 isn't very attractive right now due to its low density. It's a first generation technology in most senses.

It's very hard for traditional memory to compete when the HBM family provides:
-> Much higher bandwidth if you want it
-> Much lower power consumption
-> Much smaller PCB footprints

Its one primary downside is increased cost, and cost is something that is eroded by time and volume.

Ironically costs are the main downfall of the tech. SK Hynix tried to trim the costs by offering only 2 stacks in a downgraded bandwidth configuration. The outcome is still too expensive because of the manufacturing limitations. The yields go down because failur somewhere in the package corrupts the whole product entirely. All the benefits are in vain if the final product is not ready for reliable mass-prodcution.

Thing is, HBM2 has the same limitations as HBM1. With only 2 stacks you can not go higher than 4/8GB or the costs increase drastically. Maybe it is just me, but I have the feeling HBM or similar stacking memory types are not ready for consumer products. The industry needs at least 2 years until they have fixed all these drawbacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Either way Samsung announced GDDR6 for 2018 back in August and Micron in February, soooooooooo this isn't actually news aside from Hynix joining the game which we all knew they would.

Samsung and SK Hynix are actually late or .. within their old plans. Micron on the other hand is said to be ahead of schedule and can according to rumours deliver mass production until the end of 2017.Micron did develop the GDDR6, so they don't have to wait for verification of the JEDEC to start manufacturing. What wonders me is why everyone is telling Nvidia would chose Sk Hynix for their chips. Doesn't make much sense. Only reason I could think is that Nvidia is ordering from all available sources to ensure availability. If the preductions for memory are correct, the newer Geforces will have 12-16GB VRAM. Multiplied by millions of potential cards that is quite the amount they need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

GDDR6 is not impressive btw, the only thing it has going for it over HBM2 is >16GB VRAM. It ties or loses in every other metric.

Don't think in such limiting perspectives. Everyone knows HBM is only for the upper echelon of cards. The majority of gamers will never see this tech in the next years. GDDR on the other hand is the standard for all graphic devices. If the standard moves up, everyone benefits. In short term it will dwindle down even to the low-end. Everyone will profit from this new memory, so it is not just the capacity, but also the avilability. Costs and easiness to assemble are another benefit. GDDR6 has 10% less energy costs than GDDR5. That brings the memory types closer together.

The footprint and memory controller may be a factor, but with cards that consume 200W+ TDP, a smaller card is bad for cooling. If you ignore that, cards like the NANO will throttle like no tomorrow or need an AIC, which negates all the benefits with a big-whop watercooling-sytem again.

HBM2 is not ready for the big show yet, maybe in a few years, but Nvidia already said the energy costs are rising to dramatically with future stacking plans. It's better to have more than one horse in the race. Same applies to memory technologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

Funny how all these new things appear when HBM was the tech of the future biggrin.gif. Yet again, AMD has no power here and NVIDIA is pushing for tech where they do not need to pay royalties to AMD.

HBM was not the only stacking technology. Nvidia and Micron / Samsung had contracts with Hybrid Memory Cube (HMC) before. The roadmap told this since 2014 and would mainly benefit the professional line-up, which could be improved massively the network stacking specialization. AMD and SK Hynix then developed HBM and Nvidia switched to not be too exotic. Samsung would produce this HBM2 and the Micron contracts may have been switched to GDDR5X and in future then GDDR6.

AMD never got any royalties and never will. It is a JEDEC standard now. Same with the production priority hoax that is still floating int he heads of so many people. It was never true and even if it would have only influenced the prodcution of SK Hynix, not everyone else. AMD is obsessed with HBM because it is the only way to help their bandwidth starved archictectures to shine.
post #26 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You must be new here.

The 3200 posts and join date seem to contradict that, but there is simply no other explanation on how you think the R9-500 series is the first to do that *cough390Xcough770cough* or that it's somehow an AMD exclusive.

There is also no other explanation on how you think a rebrand/refresh is worse than the things nVidia has been doing lately besides potentially just not reading any news articles on OCN. 970 anyone?
AMD doesn't get royalties, it's a JEDEC standard. And nVidia does use HBM.

Either way Samsung announced GDDR6 for 2018 back in August and Micron in February, soooooooooo this isn't actually news aside from Hynix joining the game which we all knew they would.

GDDR6 is not impressive btw, the only thing it has going for it over HBM2 is >16GB VRAM. It ties or loses in every other metric.

Never did I say this was the first time. You must not know what year it is or must group every instance together as if it happened yesterday. What company gets complained about from year to year changes over time. Right now it's constantly NV but I'm not seeing the same reaction from fanboys in the other camp.
post #27 of 108
Smaller PCB can be slapped with a larger cooler. We all see this during the GTX 670/680 era. The heat shroud will extend out from the end of the PCB.


If anything HBM most important aspect will be reduced power consumption, die like those GV100 / GV110 are behemoth and they need to reduce power to fit into the recommended 250-280 TDP.
Project Frostbite
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7-6800K OC 4.2GHz @ 1.28 Vcore ASUS X99 Sabertooth Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11G Corsair Vengeance White LED 4x8GB DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 850 1TB Corsair H100i V2 AiO Window 10 64-Bits Home Premium Acer Predator XB271HU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Spectrum Mechanical Keyboard (Blue Switc... Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Gold Phantek Enthoo Pro Full Acrylic Black Razer Diamondback 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
Audio Engine A2+ Speaker Audio Engine D1 DAC Audio Engine S8 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Project Frostbite
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7-6800K OC 4.2GHz @ 1.28 Vcore ASUS X99 Sabertooth Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11G Corsair Vengeance White LED 4x8GB DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 850 1TB Corsair H100i V2 AiO Window 10 64-Bits Home Premium Acer Predator XB271HU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Tesoro Spectrum Mechanical Keyboard (Blue Switc... Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Gold Phantek Enthoo Pro Full Acrylic Black Razer Diamondback 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
Audio Engine A2+ Speaker Audio Engine D1 DAC Audio Engine S8 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 108
isn't GDDR5 based on DDR3 and GDDR6 will be based on DDR4?
RGB for days
(24 items)
 
 
The Lady Box
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[Intel] i7 7700K [5.0 GHz @ 1.##v] [Gigabyte] Z270MX Gaming 5 [MSI] 290X Lightning [####/#### @ 1.##v] [A-Data] XPG Dazzle [4*8GB - 3000/16] 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
[Samsung] 840 EVO 256GB [A-Data] SP900 256GB m.2 [Seagate] 4TB 2.5" ST4000LM016 [Alphacool] VP755 v1 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[EKWB] Coolstream XE 360 [EKWB] Coolstream PE 360 [Alphacool] NexXxos XP3 Light Acetal [EKWB] FC 290X Lightning 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Frozen-Q] Resevoir [Mayhems] UV White tubing 3/8" x 5/8" [Alphacool] fittings all around [NZXT] Aer F 120mm (x6) 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
[Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64] [G.Skill] Ripjaws KM570 [Seasonic] Prime 650W [80+Titanium] [Case Labs] SM5 [Matte White] 
MouseMouse PadOtherOther
[Nixeus] Revel [White] [Frozen-Q] ProMat [NZXT] Hue+ [CableMod] RGB [30cm] 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[Intel] i5 7300U (ES) [ECS] KBLU-MINI [Intel] HD 620 [Kingston] Impact 2*4GB 2400/14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
[Transcend] MTS400 128GB [Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64]  [Toshiba] 39" LED TV 1080p [Logitech] K400 
PowerCaseAudio
[FSP] 19v 3.42A brick [ECS] Liva Z Plus [Simple Audio] Listen 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] FX-8350 [Gigabyte] 78LMT-USB3 Rev 5 [XFX] HD 5450 One [G.Skill] Ares, 2*4GB, 2133/10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
[Samsung] 750 EVO 250GB [Western Digital] Green 2TB [Jonsbo] FR-331 RGB fans [Jonsbo] FR-301 Red 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
[Jonsbo] FR-301 White (in PSU) [Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64]  [Samsung] 19" Syncmaster 931BF [Samsung] 19" Syncmaster 931BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
[Microsoft] Comfort Curve 1000 [EVGA] 550 GS [Jonsbo] VR2 - Black [Microsoft] Optical Mouse 200 
Other
[CableMod] White Cable Set 
  hide details  
Reply
RGB for days
(24 items)
 
 
The Lady Box
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[Intel] i7 7700K [5.0 GHz @ 1.##v] [Gigabyte] Z270MX Gaming 5 [MSI] 290X Lightning [####/#### @ 1.##v] [A-Data] XPG Dazzle [4*8GB - 3000/16] 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
[Samsung] 840 EVO 256GB [A-Data] SP900 256GB m.2 [Seagate] 4TB 2.5" ST4000LM016 [Alphacool] VP755 v1 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[EKWB] Coolstream XE 360 [EKWB] Coolstream PE 360 [Alphacool] NexXxos XP3 Light Acetal [EKWB] FC 290X Lightning 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Frozen-Q] Resevoir [Mayhems] UV White tubing 3/8" x 5/8" [Alphacool] fittings all around [NZXT] Aer F 120mm (x6) 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
[Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64] [G.Skill] Ripjaws KM570 [Seasonic] Prime 650W [80+Titanium] [Case Labs] SM5 [Matte White] 
MouseMouse PadOtherOther
[Nixeus] Revel [White] [Frozen-Q] ProMat [NZXT] Hue+ [CableMod] RGB [30cm] 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[Intel] i5 7300U (ES) [ECS] KBLU-MINI [Intel] HD 620 [Kingston] Impact 2*4GB 2400/14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
[Transcend] MTS400 128GB [Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64]  [Toshiba] 39" LED TV 1080p [Logitech] K400 
PowerCaseAudio
[FSP] 19v 3.42A brick [ECS] Liva Z Plus [Simple Audio] Listen 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] FX-8350 [Gigabyte] 78LMT-USB3 Rev 5 [XFX] HD 5450 One [G.Skill] Ares, 2*4GB, 2133/10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
[Samsung] 750 EVO 250GB [Western Digital] Green 2TB [Jonsbo] FR-331 RGB fans [Jonsbo] FR-301 Red 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
[Jonsbo] FR-301 White (in PSU) [Microsoft] Windows 10 [Professional x64]  [Samsung] 19" Syncmaster 931BF [Samsung] 19" Syncmaster 931BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
[Microsoft] Comfort Curve 1000 [EVGA] 550 GS [Jonsbo] VR2 - Black [Microsoft] Optical Mouse 200 
Other
[CableMod] White Cable Set 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Smaller PCB can be slapped with a larger cooler. We all see this during the GTX 670/680 era. The heat shroud will extend out from the end of the PCB.

Yes and the result looks like garbage. Remember whenever Nvidia did something like this with a card and the reviewers and customers complained all the time? On the other hand, who is so crazy and wants a small cards with one of this tripple-cooling 2.5 slot monsters attached to it. If w don't get massively better cooling technologies, this is a dead-end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Please do not expect such godly jump within a short time span. 12Gbps from Micron have yet to be utilised.

I don't know why you quoted me there. My post summerized the trippling down in the future when GDDR6 / HBM2 hits the market.

If it was because of my 9->11 metric, that was a comparison from the low-end cards getting GDDR5X. An example would be cards like the "new" GTX1060 @9 Gbps GDDR5 would be updated to at least 11 Gbps GDDR5X. Yeah, there is room upwards here, but I went with what we have now.

Everything above with GDDR5X would move from now 11 Gbps to 16Gbps, but then GDDR6. This move alone could buy Nvidia enough time to stall for futur tech, whatever it will be. Future process nodes may play a role here too. I still doubt the transition to 7nm or even 10nm will be that smoothly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

TBH we will see a 12Gbps first before we start seeing 14 & 16 rated speed. They will be slowly stepping up while they rolled out more and more powerful GPUs. HBM will mostly likely be Titan Exclusive, which could be based on GV100, GV110

Isn't GDDR5X going to 14 Gbps theoretical maximum only? With advanced GDDR6 on the horizon, is it ensured Micron will further develop GDDR5X?
There might be budget versions incoming, but the main goal should be to make GDDR6 a standard as fast as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

16GB HBM2 Titan Volta, 12GB G5X (12gpbs) GTX 2080 will be my best bet at this point.

Yeah, but with 16GB HBM2 I expect a massive price increase. There is a reason why AMD is said to only offer 8 GB. The whole reason why the try to implement this horrible HBCC story. Nvidia has the Titan brand. Seems there are enough buyers with amounts of cash to buy it. Yet I seriously doubt Nvidia would stay with 12 Gbps GDDR5X if GDDR6 gives so many advantages. Nvidia ts more clever to hold back like that. They are similar to Apple and have shown to know how to claim pre-production contracts, see HBM2 and their DGX-1 workstaions. Nobody else could secure so much of this rare memory.

If there is a production based limitaiton, I would seek it in the used process node. Nvidia would rather limit the amount of cores in a node like TSMC 12nm and bring new edtions than to let the bandwidth be starved when AMD writes it all over their marketing.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 4/24/17 at 8:18am
post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

Funny how all these new things appear when HBM was the tech of the future biggrin.gif. Yet again, AMD has no power here and NVIDIA is pushing for tech where they do not need to pay royalties to AMD.

How does this stop HBM from being the tech of the future?

This ram is not on chip implementation.

We will have cards using cheaper GDDR6 and cards using HBM.

Just like it was before rolleyes.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Guru3D] SK Hynix Launches Fastest 8Gb Graphics DRAM (GDDR6) - Adopted by 2018