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[EFF] FCC Announces Plan to Abandon Net Neutrality and ISP Privacy - Page 11

post #101 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Yes, I understand your idealistic commentary, but like I said many times in the past the net effect of the new regs and Title II were mostly inconsequential to the end user.
Because companies were already successful in rendering the full extent of their ineptitude and laziness practically invisible to most people. If there was to be no assumed net effect on their operations with the new regulations, there wouldn't have been such harsh reactions from their lobbyists, however, this wasn't because the effect wouldn't have been negative, it would have forced the companies to play nice with consumers' rights and make them more reputable and trustworthy. Apparently the short-term bottom line matters more than actually doing right by customers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

And you are not correct in the fact that ISPs had never been given specific undefined authority to manage their network traffic in a way that had never been codified. Read the regs, the wording is in there, I'm not making that up.
They were allowed to shape/limit traffic on their networks however they wanted 10 years ago because the FCC back then didn't care about enforcing what was on the books. Hell, hardly anyone cared until it actually had an effect on stream-/torrent-happy customers. That's the underlying problem, pre-emptive NN/Title II regulations are treated as unnecessary until they ARE necessary, at which point they're reactionary rather than pre-emptive. Again, nobody would even care about any of this if the ISPs had never pushed each others' heads so far up their money-lined asses that they only pull them out to see who exactly is trying to ask for more lobbying money on a given day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Comcast tried implementing that torrent blocking hardware several times back in 2008-ish and the early 2010s, bad publicity and a court case that I'm not sure of the outcome, but in the end Comcast stopped that practice and this was before Title II.
Correct, but further regulation is necessary to prevent further abuse along similar lines solely in the name of adding more black zeroes to the bottom line. The only thing I'm still personally on the fence on is restricting zero-rating for mobile data plans, since the zero-rated services mostly involve third parties these days, rather than first like they used to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

The market is driving towards unmetered mobile access and bundling services, not because of but in spite of FCC... like perhaps Verizon or AT&T can one day provide free streaming sat or cable television services over mobile internet, which Net Neutrality regs are prohibiting and all the horse pucky is preventing the consumer from getting a better deal like that.
There is no push toward totally unmetered mobile access here, I don't know where you're getting that. If there was, our major carriers would already have cheap, uncapped, unthrottled LTE plans like a good number of other 1st world nations' large carriers do. If/when they DO make that serious push, they won't be doing it in spite of or even because of the FCC, they'll be doing it to promote their asinine pie-in-the-sky ideas of a totally wireless future that only serves to mislead people into thinking wired networks are old-fashioned, inferior, and primitive (not that DSL and dial-up aren't, but you get the idea). Cellular data networks are not, and never will be, a suitable substitute for a state-of-the-art wireline network where one exists. The ISPs and cellular companies know this, and they know they'll make a LOT more money juicing us for overage fees on limited plans, or saving money by throttling people on "unlimited" plans. That's really what it's about.
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post #102 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

That's on the state level, and depends on the state. Barely more than half of the states still allow it, and it doesn't look like that'll change.

I'll give you one guess which half still allows it...
post #103 of 164
Either way, I hope we start getting some competition. The only two ISP's I have available are Verizon DSL (lol) and Optimum online. So basically, I only have 1 ISP in my area.
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post #104 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by venom55520 View Post

Either way, I hope we start getting some competition. The only two ISP's I have available are Verizon DSL (lol) and Optimum online. So basically, I only have 1 ISP in my area.
I have the cable company, landline phone company and satellite choices in a town of 7k. Maybe you have another choice. Apparently the phone company has faster internet than charter in my area now. I have charter and like it, but spending my money locally might be worth the switch for the same speed and same price.
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post #105 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

I'll give you one guess which half still allows it...
I'm not sure what you're getting at. The states without such restrictions are a healthy mix of political and social spectrums, but this isn't so much a social/political issue as it is a lobbying one. The states that have restrictions just happen to have legislators willing to bend over as far as necessary to let phone/cable companies co-sponsor/author restrictive legislation. People need to stop putting people like that in power, plain and simple.
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post #106 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by venom55520 View Post

Either way, I hope we start getting some competition. The only two ISP's I have available are Verizon DSL (lol) and Optimum online. So basically, I only have 1 ISP in my area.
I have Verizon and satellite, both of which are extremely expensive and capped. A neighbor within Wi-Fi distance of my router has Frontier but they won't service my house.

Finland has a population density that's half of the USA's and they have faster and cheaper broadband.
Edited by superstition222 - 4/29/17 at 10:26am
post #107 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Some of you free-market guys really believe this stuff, huh?
Free market is a myth.

When there is a group of people government happens. When government happens regulation happens. When regulation happens there are restrictions on marketing.

The thing a lot of people forget is that high-quality regulation increases quality of life, not the opposite. Regulation has been turned into a bad word by industry propaganda but there's another word that can be substituted for it: rules.

People who think life is best without rules need to think a bit more. The real issue is balancing the freedom to act with the freedom to not cause damage.
post #108 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

How do you know this? Because they say so? Because you trust them?

Here's what we know about human behavior: Any law or regulation that allows for something negative (unintended or not), will be exploited almost 100% of the time.

If mega corporation internet monopolies can get away with offering tiered packages they will. It's already bad enough, what do you think will happen when they're allowed to extort customers?

And how do you know it will happen exactly? Because you say so? See, this is a two way street..

That aside its kinda weird for me to look at all of this from the EU. While Americans struggle to keep what's left of their privacy on the internet we get more and more strict rules for ISPs at the same time. Not to mention the word DSL has long gone here while I've seen quite a few people mention it on this forum.
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post #109 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

People need to stop putting people like that in power, plain and simple.
Money puts people into positions of power. The restrictions on what kind of money can control our politics is a big issue. Potentially bigger than that is the question of how anyone is going to trump the influence of that money to make new/changed restrictions. The Supreme Court was seen as the best impediment to a Wild West money game but they came up with the Citizens United ruling.

The people that voters get to vote on are vetted by money first. That's why in France, for instance, voters have the choice between a Goldman Sachs banker and Russia's puppet. It's also why the vaunted Georgia election is between a corporate bankster Dem and a typical GOP alternative.
post #110 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Does this nonsense look appealing to you guys? This is what the end of Net Neutrality looks like.


Something like this will never happen. This isn't the same as cable tv packages. Cables companies pay for the right to broadcast each channel. ISP's don't pay for the right to carry a particular web site. To charge money to access a particular web site would be a violation of trademark and copyright law, the same way it is illegal to charge admission to watch the Super Bowl or for retailers to have "Super Bowl" Sales without paying for a license agreement.

Most ISP's are monoplies which puts them under antitrust laws that already exist, and these laws are what should be used to prevent these things from happening.
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