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[EFF] FCC Announces Plan to Abandon Net Neutrality and ISP Privacy - Page 8

post #71 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraNova View Post

Honestly, it's much less about the pricing structure, and more about the limitation of access and vital information.

Besides, those "undercuts" would likely be a "limited time only" type of situation just like what cable/satellite companies already do. Then your rates go up. And I am not talking a few cents either. Not to mention areas that are limited to only ONE ISP.


But what you are arguing for is stopping companies from monetizing their content. Nobody wants to see adds so we use the adblocker. If you don't pay for a service it will go away at some point.
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post #72 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

But what you are arguing for is stopping companies from monetizing their content. Nobody wants to see adds so we use the adblocker. If you don't pay for a service it will go away at some point.

What content? Some of these sites already have a paywall. Like I said though, it's not about the money. It's about access. ISPs can restrict you based on what they feel will or won't be supportive or important to them.

With a society that is finding it hard to make money to begin with, whether we use ad-block software or not is not going to change that these big companies will still make their money regardless.
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post #73 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

But what you are arguing for is stopping companies from monetizing their content. Nobody wants to see adds so we use the adblocker. If you don't pay for a service it will go away at some point.

No, what people are against is corporations "double dipping". First they charge for access to the internet, then they charge you for what you access. This will eventually lead to fully metered and tiered packages. I'm already in one of the areas Comcast is datacaping. It sucks, now I have to treat my home internet the way I treat my cell phone, always wondering if the megabytes are worth it.
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post #74 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

When all this nightmarish pricing goes on what do you think is going to happen when another ISP comes and undercuts the nightmarish prices and then another undercuts those prices and so on...

The imaginary world most of the people posting live in in this thread must be a very scary place.

Except in this World competition can't come in, because of laws that the major providers lobbied for.

Any potential competitor won't have access to the Fiber loop or if they get access it won't be at the same rate, thus not being able to compete.

Source: 20 years in the industry.
    
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post #75 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


Except in this World competition can't come in, because of laws that the major providers lobbied for.

Any potential competitor won't have access to the Fiber loop or if they get access it won't be at the same rate, thus not being able to compete.

Source: 20 years in the industry.

 

Exactly. The Holy Grail of competition and the 'invisible hand' is wonderful in theory, but in practice this is an industry where collusion has created territorial monopolies and the there is no incentive (and in many cases, no possibility) for the major players to compete in most markets. The issue there isn't regulation as a tool, it's the production of bad regulation created under the protection of an apathetic public which 'isn't interested in politics'. Regulation can be a good thing, but not when you leave the regulating to the devices of the companies who exist solely to separate you from your money.

 
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post #76 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

When all this nightmarish pricing goes on what do you think is going to happen when another ISP comes and undercuts the nightmarish prices and then another undercuts those prices and so on...

The imaginary world most of the people posting live in in this thread must be a very scary place.

Ah yes the imaginary "other" company that magically appears and lowers prices.

Most consumers have what one or two maybe three choices if they're really lucky?

And the barriers to entry in the ISP business is impossibly high. You're acting like they're selling fruit at a stand.
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post #77 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Ah yes the imaginary "other" company that magically appears and lowers prices.

Most consumers have what one or two maybe three choices if they're really lucky?

And the barriers to entry in the ISP business is impossibly high. You're acting like they're selling fruit at a stand.

~80% of people in the United States have access to one provider.

The cost of entry into the industry - without local, state, or federal government backing? At a level that could actually compete with a major incumbent provider? We are talking in the many tens of millions of dollars to the low billions of dollars, as those are the resources you are going against.

On a smaller scale of a little town, small city, the cost ranges from many hundreds of thousands of dollars to several million in just physical hardware. Now you need to staff the project and pay those salaries to keep things running, the cost just keeps climbing. My wife recently completed a cost analysis for a very small provider start-up. Again, hardware costs for this particular provider was close to $300,000 for the first year to deploy the footprint desired. They then had employee and other overhead to worry about on top of that.

However! This isn't to say it can't be done!! In fact it is incredibly easy for a Municipality to start and operate an ISP for their residence. All with the advantage of not having to be profit driven and having access to people and funds due to being a Government agency.

Oh...wait....the major telecommunication providers lobbied and made it illegal for Municipalities to do just this.....
    
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post #78 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by New green View Post

"The data that big corporations collect from black broadband users leads to predatory marketing, which starts at a young age and lasts throughout our lives. Without the crucial FCC regulations implemented last year, black and marginalized communities will continue to experience online price gouging, data discrimination, and digital redlining." https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/isps-and-fcc-chair-ajit-pai-celebrate-death-of-online-privacy-rules/

Do we allow net neutrality to die in order to reclassify ISP's to be regulated under the FTC or do we live without either the FTC and FCC from protecting our privacy? This is why I no longer can tell which is the lesser evil and I predicted privacy protections to be used as leverage to do away with net neutrality.
I don't really know what you're getting at here - the FCC introduced privacy protections that that article is referring to under Wheeler and then repealed them under Pai.

The utility argument was premised on the FTCs lack of authority to regulate the internet, thus the reclassification (so the FCC could regulate it).

Theoretically the FTC could establish such privacy rules but has failed to do historically and neither Pai nor the FTC have offered any such plan at this point.
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post #79 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I don't really know what you're getting at here - the FCC introduced privacy protections that that article is referring to under Wheeler and then repealed them under Pai.

The utility argument was premised on the FTCs lack of authority to regulate the internet, thus the reclassification (so the FCC could regulate it).

Theoretically the FTC could establish such privacy rules but has failed to do historically and neither Pai nor the FTC have offered any such plan at this point.

I'm most likely just mistaken and confused then. I was thinking net neutrality under the FCC without the FCC being able to protect our privacy could be worse than the FTC protecting our privacy without net neutrality.
post #80 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

When all this nightmarish pricing goes on what do you think is going to happen when another ISP comes and undercuts the nightmarish prices and then another undercuts those prices and so on...

The imaginary world most of the people posting live in in this thread must be a very scary place.

The imaginary world you live in where you have ISPs that actually compete must be a very nice place.

ISPs are monopolies in almost every region. Why is it so hard to fathom that monopolies lead to anticompetitive practices?
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