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[EFF] FCC Announces Plan to Abandon Net Neutrality and ISP Privacy - Page 10

post #91 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Do you even for a moment think that the driving force of our Infrastructure roll-out is market demand and need? Do you honestly think people like bundles and that is why they exist?

applaud.gif

lachen.gif

Friend, let me remove that wool! Neither one of those is true and the driving force of both are the bottom lines of the accounting sheets.

Of course I understand the complex issues involved. I broke the zero day news of the FCC regs and line by lined them. I'm relating how it's directly affecting me as an end user.

What's not true? I just changed my Verizon plan to unlimited hot spot but I would need to purchase a separate package if I want DirectTV 4g streaming. AT&T can't offer it's digital television service in a bundle either. I would need to purchase those services separately because monopoly flag waving from Hulu, Vudu and every other ISP independent content provider screaming anti-trust allegations. And to offer it not affecting any imposed overlimit cap that another provider might face... ooh the drama.

You're denying that's not a direct effect of "Net Neutrality?"
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post #92 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

Regarding how net neutrality did "nothing to protect consumers," it's because those enforcement mechanisms hadn't been put into place yet (and were then repealed with the new leadership).

"Net neutrality" didn't do anything to protect consumers because it wasn't meant to - it was meant to redefine the Internet as a public utility so that the FCC could begin to produce regulation.

We went over this in another thread (for those with short memories): http://www.overclock.net/t/1626309/the-intercept-the-senate-just-voted-to-sell-you-out-to-advertisers/0_100

I completely agree with you here.

I would prefer it be returned to title I at the chance of a whole lot more awesome, and I don't trust the gov to be unlobbied, unbiased and competent, but not everyone feels the same.

Regulated utility or free for all. It was a free for all, that worked quite well. Regulated utility might have some good points too. I can't see them, but most regulators agree that regulation is good.

Age restrictions for minors would be convenient for parents. Not letting anyone get away without paying sales tax would help state governments. Digital property rights are largely ignored, and anyone can say pretty much anything, or just make up whatever and see if it works. FDA regulations can be bypassed, illegal arrangements can be made and untraceable currency exchange methods are available for everyone to utilize. There are a lot of irresponsible problems that could be dealt with via proper regulation. The internet is already fast enough, just not for everyone. A regulated utility could tackle the problem of bringing the current definition of broadband speeds to everyone eventually and spread the cost out evenly. Which is well in excess of the point to point 768k I used to have that worked for 720p streaming and all regular webpages. Increasing speed above the base broadband definition is not really necessary. Everyone could be equal (except gov of course) The price could even be dependent on your income.

There is both good and bad in there depending on which way you look at it.

I think most can agree that local monopolies excessively exploiting effectively captive customers is bad and should be dealt with. Hopefully the FTC will because it looks like it is falling in their laps.
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post #93 of 164
Whenever you let monopolistic/duopolistic conglomerates the slightest chance to screw over their customers they will do it. Especially when it comes to a utility like the Internet.

Are some of you really this naive?

I have very little knowledge about the laws and the history behind all this stuff, so please educate me, but to expect that competition will suddenly grow in this two-company-at-best market you've gotta be kidding yourself. ISP startup costs are so gigantic and the barriers of entry so high that it's almost impossible to enter and compete with the big boys.

Some of you free-market guys really believe this stuff, huh?

"If prices go high, another company will undercut them! You save money! Deregulation! Innovation! Nature will takes it course!" lachen.gif

This is what would happen. First off, the worst aspect of the death of Net Neutrality would be the loss of free speech. Second, you'll be paying a lot more for the same crap that you get now. Enjoy the 50 different tier packages that they'll offer you for 5 times the price!
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post #94 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

We (still not used to being out of the industry) have the tools and systems in place to immediately move to a Metered Service, paying by the Kb as well as the immediate ability to create "Fast Lanes" through VLANing and other networking methods. The only reason it hasn't happen is because enough of us in the industry and enough of the consumers, Government bodies, etc, are looking at them...waiting. Basically because the Framework hasn't been in place for the major providers to make the change, it hasn't happened yet, but the major providers want it to.

What people are really, really, really, really, not understanding is that here in the USA we have about 6 multi-billion dollar, multi-national companies that control the Airwaves, the physical infrastructure, the media content, everything the average person sees and as the Internet.

It is a massive consolidation of power to deregulate these people.

These companies operate on legacy costs and old business models that literally go back to mid last century. Their multi-billion dollar survival requires that they maximize their profits to an extreme.

EDIT:

Some evidence of this? Look at ESPN......

I have pointed out several times the flaw in their business model and how expensive it is to even non-subscribers to ESPN on cable packages. Multiple threads have the breakdown of the Per Sub Costs, etc....

They just fired 100 people and will only continue to shrink because of those costs....
I cant wait for the day ESPN finally shuts down.
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post #95 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Does this nonsense look appealing to you guys? This is what the end of Net Neutrality looks like.


That's not happening and it never will. This sort of thing is already becoming obsolete in the cable TV industry. If the ISP's really wanted to do business this way with regard to internet then they would have done so long ago before there was any of this hocus pocus net neutrality talk.
post #96 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's not happening and it never will. This sort of thing is already becoming obsolete in the cable TV industry.

How do you know this? Because they say so? Because you trust them?

Here's what we know about human behavior: Any law or regulation that allows for something negative (unintended or not), will be exploited almost 100% of the time.

If mega corporation internet monopolies can get away with offering tiered packages they will. It's already bad enough, what do you think will happen when they're allowed to extort customers?
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post #97 of 164
Because I don't believe it makes business sense for the ISP's to start segregating individual websites like that, just like the cable industry is finding out that sort of market fracturing isn't helpful with TV these days. The ISP's are making a killing right now and I don't see them doing anything extreme to upset the apple cart. The idea just seems preposterous to me and little more than paranoia and conspiracy-theory nonsense. But you're right, its just my opinion. I have no way of proving what the industry will or won't do (just as I have no way of proving what government will or won't do). I trust the private sector far more than I trust government however...
post #98 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Because I don't believe it makes business sense for the ISP's to start segregating individual websites like that, just like the cable industry is finding out that sort of market fracturing isn't helpful with TV these days. The ISP's are making a killing right now and I don't see them doing anything extreme to upset the apple cart. The idea just seems preposterous to me and little more than paranoia and conspiracy-theory nonsense. But you're right, its just my opinion. I have no way of proving what the industry will or won't do (just as I have no way of proving what government will or won't do). I trust the private sector far more than I trust government however...

But it's not a competitive market. Most users have 1 or 2 choices for internet at best. And the companies offering internet are multi billion dollar corporations who also offer TV services so if they're allowed to cripple Youtube or Netflix just make money off their TV services they will.

No one is going to enter the ISP business just like there won't be a 3rd GPU company to counter AMD or Nvidia. The cost of entry is too high. This isn't a free market by any means.
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post #99 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's not happening and it never will. This sort of thing is already becoming obsolete in the cable TV industry. If the ISP's really wanted to do business this way with regard to internet then they would have done so long ago before there was any of this hocus pocus net neutrality talk.

It will given the chance....

The reason they are failing at that business model in television and it is obsolete is because you have online access to their competition. Data services are agnostic so you can go online and watch TV instead of paying AT&T or Comcast for television services. With just the data service you can skip out on giving them money for television, because you get it online for free.

80% of the population doesn't have an option for Internet services providers, being stuck with one.

That is a major problem because guess who owns the failing networks and obsolete business models? The very companies that provide the majority of Internet services to the nation. When the entire eco-system is owned end-to-end by a handful of companies, without regulation, there will absolutely be abuses and profiteering. The only real reason you haven't seen it happen yet is because the lobbying to get it done, along with the business mergers (One large provider buying another), and the overall framework of technology hasn't quite been there.

That isn't the case anymore. Over the course of the last two decades providers have merged into ever larger single companies. Hardware in the industry has come up to the performance level that you can do this type of extreme networking management without breaking the network, so to speak. Protections are getting blown out of the water day by day.

The idea that just because it hasn't happened yet and that it won't later is absolutely stupid.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/27/17 at 10:50pm
    
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post #100 of 164
I'm not sure if the website bundles are realistic (that's pretty extreme), but you'll certainly see more ISP-specific unmetered content deals and "get 6 months free X" deals. We've had them in Australia since the dawn of broadband, maybe longer. And we actually have competition.
Edited by randomizer - 4/28/17 at 2:13am
    
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