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[BI] Tesla's semi truck can be driven around 'like a sports car' - Page 12

post #111 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Higher efficiency in turning those joules into torque. ICE wastes TONS of energy as purely unused heat.

30% is the average, the most recent ones have over 40% from what i recall.
so yeah, 60%~70% of the fuel's energy is turned into waste heat.

Okay, so now instead of being 10x, it's more like 3 times.

Except you can't do regenerative braking or solar tops on a gas truck. All energy used is wasted, even idle, but electric can recharge itself by various means up to and including using a small ICE like the Prius as a last resort.

Seems between that and the much shorter max range (irrelevant due to simple time-per-day restrictions if you can just swap the whole thing at a stop), they're about on parity.
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post #112 of 334
I like the people in this thread that seem to forget range is limited by battery capacity and semis have a lot more room for increases in that regard since it doesn't have to be close to a normal vehicle size
     
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post #113 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Do you struggle with reading? I have been very clear to specify when I am speaking about just the engine, just the transmission and an entire drive-train. Go back and read it again if it was hard the first time.
The entire drivetrain is an engine, transmission and rear axle. A Cummins ISX 15 is 3000 Pounds, an Eaton 13 speed is 720 pounds. Where are you getting the other 2300 pounds from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Okay, so now instead of being 10x, it's more like 3 times.

Except you can't do regenerative braking or solar tops on a gas truck. All energy used is wasted, even idle, but electric can recharge itself by various means up to and including using a small ICE like the Prius as a last resort.

Seems between that and the much shorter max range (irrelevant due to simple time-per-day restrictions if you can just swap the whole thing at a stop), they're about on parity.
No, it's 10x factoring in the efficiency difference. Diesel fuel has over 40x the energy density of the best lithium batteries. So even factoring in that the electric drivetrain is 3x more efficient, you're going to need 13x the batteries. To match a 300 gallon diesel fuel tank you would need 27,000 pounds worth of batteries.
post #114 of 334
Quote:
Here is the problem with the entire foundation of your logic; the fossil fuel and other associated industries have lobbied the living snot out of green technology for over a 100 years solid now.

Oh? I think the 1920's time line would explain simply why Electric motors didn't do well in automotive. However our tech now is far better..... the Gas or fuel is still to this day readily available and abundant.

1832-1839
Scottish inventor Robert Anderson invents the first crude electric carriage powered by non-rechargeable primary cells.

1835
American Thomas Davenport is credited with building the first practical electric vehicle -- a small locomotive.

1859
French physicist Gaston Planté invents the rechargeable lead-acid storage battery. In 1881, his countryman Camille Faure will improve the storage battery's ability to supply current and invent the basic lead-acid battery used in automobiles.

1891
William Morrison of Des Moines, Iowa builds the first successful electric automobile in the United States.

Thomas Edison and an electric car. Photo courtesy of the Smithsonian. Thomas Edison and an electric car. Courtesy of the Smithsonian1893
A handful of different makes and models of electric cars are exhibited in Chicago.

1897
The first electric taxis hit the streets of New York City early in the year. The Pope Manufacturing Company of Connecticut becomes the first large-scale American electric automobile manufacturer.

1899
Believing that electricity will run autos in the future, Thomas Alva Edison begins his mission to create a long-lasting, powerful battery for commercial automobiles. Though his research yields some improvements to the alkaline battery, he ultimately abandons his quest a decade later.

1900
The electric automobile is in its heyday. Of the 4,192 cars produced in the United States 28 percent are powered by electricity, and electric autos represent about one-third of all cars found on the roads of New York City, Boston, and Chicago.

Ford Model T A Ford Model T1908
Henry Ford introduces the mass-produced and gasoline-powered Model T, which will have a profound effect on the U.S. automobile market.

1912
Charles Kettering invents the first practical electric automobile starter. Kettering's invention makes gasoline-powered autos more alluring to consumers by eliminating the unwieldy hand crank starter and ultimately helps pave the way for the electric car's demise.

1920
During the 1920s the electric car ceases to be a viable commercial product. The electric car's downfall is attributable to a number of factors, including the desire for longer distance vehicles, their lack of horsepower, and the ready availability of gasoline.

1966
Congress introduces the earliest bills recommending use of electric vehicles as a means of reducing air pollution. A Gallup poll indicates that 33 million Americans are interested in electric vehicles.

1970s
Concerns about the soaring price of oil -- peaking with the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 -- and a growing environmental movement result in renewed interests in electric cars from both consumers and producers.

1972
Victor Wouk, the "Godfather of the Hybrid," builds the first full-powered, full-size hybrid vehicle out of a 1972 Buick Skylark provided by General Motors (G.M.) for the 1970 Federal Clean Car Incentive Program. The Environmental Protection Association later kills the program in 1976.

Vanguard-Sebring's CitiCar Vanguard-Sebring's CitiCar1974
Vanguard-Sebring's CitiCar makes its debut at the Electric Vehicle Symposium in Washington, D.C. The CitiCar has a top speed of over 30 mph and a reliable warm-weather range of 40 miles. By 1975 the company is the sixth largest automaker in the U.S. but is dissolved only a few years later.

1975
The U.S. Postal Service purchases 350 electric delivery jeeps from AM General, a division of AMC, to be used in a test program.

1976
Congress passes the Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Research, Development, and Demonstration Act. The law is intended to spur the development of new technologies including improved batteries, motors, and other hybrid-electric components.

1988
Roger Smith, CEO of G.M. , agrees to fund research efforts to build a practical consumer electric car. G.M. teams up with California's AeroVironment to design what would become the EV1, which one employee called "the world's most efficient production vehicle." Some electric vehicle enthusiasts have speculated that the EV1 was never undertaken as a serious commercial venture by the large automaker.

1990
California passes its Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Mandate, which requires two percent of the state's vehicles to have no emissions by 1998 and 10 percent by 2003. The law is repeatedly weakened over the next decade to reduce the number of pure ZEVs it requires.

1997
Toyota unveils the Prius -- the world's first commercially mass-produced and marketed hybrid car -- in Japan. Nearly 18,000 units are sold during the first production year.

1997 - 2000
A few thousand all-electric cars (such as Honda's EV Plus, G.M.'s EV1, Ford's Ranger pickup EV, Nissan's Altra EV, Chevy's S-10 EV, and Toyota's RAV4 EV) are produced by big car manufacturers, but most of them are available for lease only. All of the major automakers' advanced all-electric production programs will be discontinued by the early 2000s.

2002
G.M. and DaimlerChrysler sue the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to repeal the ZEV mandate first passed in 1990. The Bush Administration joins that suit.

Crushed EV1 electric cars Crushed EV1 electric cars2003
G.M. announces that it will not renew leases on its EV1 cars saying it can no longer supply parts to repair the vehicles and that it plans to reclaim the cars by the end of 2004.

2005
On February 16, electric vehicle enthusiasts begin a "Don't Crush" vigil to stop G.M. from demolishing 78 impounded EV1s in Burbank, California. The vigil ends twenty-eight days later when G.M. removes the cars from the facility. In the film "Who Killed the Electric Car" G.M. spokesman Dave Barthmuss states that the EV1s are to be recycled, not just crushed.

2006

Tesla Motors publicly unveils the ultra-sporty Tesla Roadster at the San Francisco International Auto Show in November. The first production Roadsters will be sold in 2008 with a base price listing of $98,950.

2008

January
A Better Place charging spot A Better Place charging spot The Israeli government announces its support for a sweeping project to promote the use of electric cars in Israel. The effort will be a joint venture between Better Place, a Palo Alto start-up founded by software maven Shai Agassi, and French automaker Renault-Nissan. Agassi's plan is to create an extensive network of charging spots and to sell EV drivers mileage in their cars like minutes on a cell phone plan. The first Renault electric cars are scheduled to hit the streets of Tel Aviv and other cities in 2011. Better Place announces a host of partnerships to support electric vehicle projects in Denmark, Canada, Japan, Australia and the U.S.

July
Gas prices reach record highs of more than $4 a gallon and car sales drop to their lowest levels in a decade. American automakers begin to shift their production lines away from SUVs and other large vehicles toward smaller, more fuel-efficient cars.

August
On the campaign trail, presidential candidate Barack Obama says he will push to have one million plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles on America's roads by 2015.

November
Struggling to remain profitable during the economic downturn, executives from the Big Three American automakers go to Washington to make the case for a $25 billion Federal bailout of the U.S. automotive industry.

December
BYD, a Chinese battery manufacturer turned automaker, releases the F3DM, the world's first mass produced plug-in hybrid compact sedan. Though they pack less energy than more conventional lithium ion batteries, BYD opts to power the F3DM with a more stable lithium iron phosphate battery. BYD plans to release the F3DM in the U.S. in 2011, but some industry insiders have doubts about whether the car is ready for the U.S. market. Though sales of the car remain sluggish, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway purchases a 10% stake in the company.

The National Bureau of Economic Research states officially that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007. The economic downturn is global in scope and will continue to exert financial pressures on the already battered U.S. auto industry.

2009

February
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 allocates $2 billion for development of electric vehicle batteries and related technologies. The Department of Energy adds another $400 million to fund building the infrastructure necessary to support plug-in electric vehicles.

April
Prime Minister Gordon Brown announces that the British government will promote the use of electric vehicles in the U.K. by offering a £2,000 subsidy to purchasers. A high-ranking government official estimates that 40% of all cars in Britain will need to be electric or hybrid for the country to reach it's goal of cutting 80% of its CO2 emissions by 2050.

Chrysler files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. As part of its restructuring, Chrysler forms a partnership with the Italian car maker Fiat.

May
President Obama announces a new gas-mileage policy that will require automakers to meet a minimum fuel-efficiency standard of 35.5 miles a gallon by 2016.

June
The Tesla Roadster The Tesla Roadster The Department of Energy awards $8 billion in loans to Ford, Nissan, and Tesla Motors to support the development of fuel-efficient vehicles. The automaker loans are the first distributions from a larger $25 billion fund created under the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007.

General Motors, the leading producer of automobiles for most of the 20th Century, files for bankruptcy protection. While strong GM brands such as Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC are slated to continue, smaller names like Saturn, Hummer and Pontiac will be sold or closed. The federal government will hold a 61 percent stake in the reborn General Motors.

August
Nissan unveils its new electric car, called the LEAF ("Leading, Environmentally Friendly, Affordable, Family Car"). The LEAF is capable of a maximum speed of more than 90 mph, can travel 100 miles on a full charge, and has a battery that can be recharged to 80% of its capacity in 30 minutes. Similar to the Better Place initiative in Israel, Nissan plans to work with the Japanese government and private companies to set up charging station networks across several countries. The first production LEAFs are scheduled to go on sale in Japan, Europe, and the U.S. in the fall of 2010.

Late 2009
Though a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids are currently available on the market, several new models including the Nissan LEAF, Chevrolet Volt, and Mitsubishi i MiEV are scheduled to hit the streets in the near future. Toyota, creator of the popular Prius hybrid, has thus far declined to deliver a fully electric car.

Despite promising signs, the electric car will need to navigate a bumpy road before it can become a viable option for many drivers. Challenges to mass adoption include high sticker prices, limited battery life and travel range, and building charging stations and other infrastructure to support electric vehicles.

Sources: Hybridcars.com: History, Electric Auto Association: Electric Vehicle History, IEEE Power Engineering Society: "Electric Vehicles In The Early Years Of The Automobile" by Carl Sulzberger, About.com: The History of Electric Vehicles, Econogics: EV History, Smithsonian Institution: Edison After Forty, Who Killed the Electric Car?
post #115 of 334
Thread Starter 
So we have Ev cars, Ev SUV, EV motorbike and soon EV semitrucks and pickup trucks,


I wonder when the EV planes are coming biggrin.gif

Instant torque = less runway wheee.gif
post #116 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

So we have Ev cars, Ev SUV, EV motorbike and soon EV semitrucks and pickup trucks,


I wonder when the EV planes are coming biggrin.gif

Instant torque = less runway wheee.gif

And can only fly 150 miles..... wow what a break through.
post #117 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

And can only fly 150 miles..... wow what a break through.

Lol local flights only

very local
post #118 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by PappaSmurfsHarem View Post

I like the people in this thread that seem to forget range is limited by battery capacity and semis have a lot more room for increases in that regard since it doesn't have to be close to a normal vehicle size

Batteries are heavy and thus will take away from the payload.
post #119 of 334
Truck driving like a sports car, in a parking lot, ... he can't drive anymore, just running boring autopilot. Otherwise he wouldn't say such a nonsense.
post #120 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Truck driving like a sports car, in a parking lot, ... he can't drive anymore, just running boring autopilot. Otherwise he wouldn't say such a nonsense.

I am so looking forward to that boring autopilot that has been in planes for years. biggrin.gif
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