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[BI] Tesla's semi truck can be driven around 'like a sports car' - Page 3

post #21 of 334
Granted trucks are far heavier than cars let alone loaded down but I'm seeing a huge 18 wheeler with that entire centerline bottom loaded with batteries. If a truck is 10+x the weight of a Tesla but has easily 10x the battery capacity in the floor, who's to say it can't work? Granted that'd make the truck even heavier but there are always trade-offs.
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post #22 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

.These will easily carry 4x the battery of a model x making 1000 miles a breeze for short hauls.

Not sure you know how energy works... 4x battery capacity but 10x the weight = shorter range...
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post #23 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post


The big rig tractors already have plastic (fiberglass) bodies to save weight.

 

Newer trucking companies have some. But a lot guys swear by the steel ones. Hence why the Kenworth T-800 is in production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post


The old gear jammers said the same thing when automatic trannies first came out. Now, most of the big rigs have full automatics because they get better fuel mileage and actually need less maintenance, especially with newer drivers (how many of you can double clutch and shift a crash box without grinding the gears or keep up with a main box and a brownie without missing the shift? Of course, if you are really good, you don't even need the clutch.). And I have talked to semi drivers (and even drove a few semis around for loading and unloading).

 

I'd argue that over 85% of the trucks on the road today are still manuals, and probably over 50% of the news ones being sold are manuals. I'd have to look at some statistics.

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post #24 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Not sure you know how energy works... 4x battery capacity but 10x the weight = shorter range...

How has that weight affected Tesla's cars and Suvs rolleyes.gif ?
Edited by budgetgamer120 - 4/28/17 at 9:36pm
post #25 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

The old gear jammers said the same thing when automatic trannies first came out. Now, most of the big rigs have full automatics because they get better fuel mileage and actually need less maintenance, especially with newer drivers (how many of you can double clutch and shift a crash box without grinding the gears or keep up with a main box and a brownie without missing the shift? Of course, if you are really good, you don't even need the clutch.). And I have talked to semi drivers (and even drove a few semis around for loading and unloading).

On flat roads? Yes. Steep hills, particularly in bad weather? I want manual control.

That's what the old gear jammers used to say. Apparently, you have never driven anything bigger than an older 1/2 ton. The automatics on the newer 1/2, 3/4, and 1 tons have as much control as a manual (not to mention more torque). Even the little deuce and a halfs have had automatics for the past 20-30 years (I've driven them) and you can select which gear you want to stay in. The bigger automatics, like the Allisons, also have retarders to help control downhill speeds. Not only do you have more control with an automatic, they are way less work to drive and there is no chance of missing a shift on a downgrade, which could leave you without any engine braking since you will be out of gear.

By the time I retired back in '04 from the company that now pays my pension and (now) Medicare supplemental, almost all the company's 2 1/2 tone line trucks were automatics. They were gradually replacing the old semi tractors with automatics. Half of the outside carrier big rigs I loaded and unloaded had automatics. Many of the older gear jammers complained about them but many of them grudgingly admitted they were easier to drive, especially in town, and got better fuel economy.

Most of the big rigs I see on the road now probably have automatics. It's easy to see what kind of tranny they have when they hit a change in grade, even as little as 1% if they are fully loaded, because of the quick puff of smoke from the stack when they have to goose the engine to shift.

I used to favor stick shifts over automatics (I actually replaced the 4 speed Warner in an F300 with a 5 speed Clark) but I actually get better control, not to mention more torque, from the automatic in my '08 F150. Drive a fully loaded truck with a 5 speed crash box main (no synchromesh so we're talking double clutching and a four speed brownie or one with a 15 speed Road Ranger (been there, done that) and then tell me with a straight face you prefer a standard.
Edited by Lady Fitzgerald - 4/28/17 at 9:37pm
     
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post #26 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

I challenge anyone who thinks this is the next sliced bread to watch any videos from truckers/people who use trucks on daily baseis (loggers, etc) online and look at the challenges they face on a daily basis.

"The driver and the fuel are the two most important costs of operating a heavy-duty truck and Tesla’s product is expected to eventually eliminate the role of the driver and significantly reduce the cost of fuel with an all-electric powertrain." https://electrek.co/guides/tesla-semi/
post #27 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

I don't even. wut Average people don't drive semis. Argument does not apply.

I was clearly talking about EVs in general as it pertains to the average driver. I even went on to expand upon it further by indicating semi-trucks don't have the same type of issue of range like current smaller vehicles.

Sorry you found that to be confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post


Range is everything in semis. Day truckers drive close to home but drive all day, and will go hundreds of miles in one shift. To have a battery that would last all day would be very heavy, further reducing range, etc.

I didn't say range wasn't anything to semi-trucks, but that the issue isn't what you are making it out to be, especially in the future 10 years span I have previously quoted. Even if solid state batteries don't take over by then the advanced Li-Ions will be far better.

Again, we are talking a 10 year span here......
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

In a car, the aerodynamics draw far more fuel than the weight. But in a truck that weights 10-20 times that of a car, accelerating from stoplights takes a huge quantity of power. The size of battery in a delivery truck to last all day would make a uselessly small payload.

Do you have any idea how much the drivetrain of a diesel semi weighs? Now toss on the hundreds of gallons of fuel when starting out - that is an incredible number of 2170 Li-ion cells!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

I'm not even going to begin on long haul truckers.

Why not? They are the most expensive and the ones that are the most expendable in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

I challenge anyone who thinks this is the next sliced bread to watch any videos from truckers/people who use trucks on daily baseis (loggers, etc) online and look at the challenges they face on a daily basis. Not to mention all these concepts always have stupid plastic bodies that truckers don't want.

Anyone who doesn't see this coming is simply going to be out of business and on the side of the road.

Not even an original statement either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

According to my back of the hand math, you could maybe get 13hp off the entire top surface area of a semi in direct sun.

In reality it's gonna be much less than that. That's enough to help, but it's barely enough to make up for the extra weight, not to mention the cost... There's a reason those solar racer cars you see are slow as heck even though they look like they're made of tin foil.



If you're talking about a 100% efficient solar panel, that's still under 50HP in really good conditions.

We aren't talking about solar direct to drive-train. It would be an additional means of helping regenerate the battery while in use much like regenerative braking is on vehicles now. There are companies even working on solar paint that would allow them to cover the entire vehicle.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/28/17 at 10:12pm
    
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post #28 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunneY View Post

Can these electric trucks last a million miles or more?

Can they travel several thousand miles without stopping?

Are they easily worked on by the operator?

I see your arguments but they dont readily apply to the trucking and automotive/industrial industry
My argument is about the strengths of electric as they apply directly to the trucking industry, presuming the industry has a future. Whether or not those strengths "readily" apply is irrelevant -- it's an unreleased product; it shouldn't need to be said that we're talking about something that isn't readily available or readily applicable to the existing hydrocarbon based industry.

If electric were superior by every metric it would have been applicable long ago, prior to becoming superior by every metric, because even in it's infancy it offers marketable solutions to a number of the issues that are intrinsic to combustion engines. It's unreasonable to expect electric to simply emerge superior in every regard -- they'll start by first tackling markets that they're uniquely advantaged within, and from there the technology will mature to compete in terms of range or operator-familiarity.

Truthfully the only legitimate issue you've raised is range, and we all know there's plenty of room for improvement in the energy storage industry. Hydrocarbons will likely continue to be dominant in this regard for a long time, but combustion engines themselves are done improving and it seems quite clear that electric motors are superior in every regard except "fuel" type. Electrons are, of course, the superior fuel.. It's just that we can't pack them as densely as the energy stored in the chemical bonds of a hydrocarbon.

It will happen, though.
Edited by Mookster - 4/28/17 at 10:22pm
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post #29 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

I don't even. wut

Average people don't drive semis. Argument does not apply. Range is everything in semis. Day truckers drive close to home but drive all day, and will go hundreds of miles in one shift. To have a battery that would last all day would be very heavy, further reducing range, etc. In a car, the aerodynamics draw far more fuel than the weight. But in a truck that weights 10-20 times that of a car, accelerating from stoplights takes a huge quantity of power. The size of battery in a delivery truck to last all day would make a uselessly small payload.

I'm not even going to begin on long haul truckers.

I challenge anyone who thinks this is the next sliced bread to watch any videos from truckers/people who use trucks on daily baseis (loggers, etc) online and look at the challenges they face on a daily basis. Not to mention all these concepts always have stupid plastic bodies that truckers don't want.

Time does not count for EV. so lasting all day is irrelevant. What matters is how much miles is covered in a day. How fast these things charge. etc....

I imagine all these big vehicles will have to be sold with only fast charging option seeing as a car takes 8hrs or more to charge with normal charging option...

power to move from stand still? Evs have issue moving? lol
post #30 of 334
Did not anyone read that Musk is proposing selling the tractors but renting the battery packs. They can be swapped out every 200-300 miles in about five minutes. That's about as far as a trucker will drive before making a pit stop and stretching the legs.
     
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Samsung 850 EVO 4TB SSDs Samsung 950 Pro 512GB m.2 SSD boot drive Noctua NH-D15S Cpu cooler Win 7 Ultimate 
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Corsair AX760 Scratch built. Currently under construction at ... Logitech M525 El Cheapo Allsop hard plastic 
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i7-3930k ASUS P9X79 WS MSI R7850 Twin Frozr 2GD5/OC Radeon HD 7850 2GB... Monoprice 1x2 powered HDMI Splitter 
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Kingston HyperX 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDR... Western Digital WD Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RP... Western Digital WD Black WD2001FASS-0 2TB 128 GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [BI] Tesla's semi truck can be driven around 'like a sports car'