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post #201 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

While this is true, keep in mind that only applies to the motor itself. The rest of the systems will still have to be maintained just like any ICE truck so the savings may not be all that significant. And that savings may be eaten up completely by the possible cost of battery replacements if Musk's optimistic longevity claims fall short of expectation in the real world.

It actually pretty much is... Batteries are expensive, but that's okay. As technology gets more advanced we'll get much better batteries for a much lower cost. I' mentioned battery energy density as the main problem, as these things slowly get ironed out, electric cars will become more and more common on the road. Imo, the future of cars is already decided. Once the writing becomes very, very obvious, I think we will see major energy companies make massive switches to electricity. Big corporations are extremely averse to risk (and thus not innovative) and will only invest when the payout is virtually guaranteed (or they think is guaranteed). Sooner or later all of our gas stations will start carrying 1 "pump" for EVs. Then 2, then 3, and then the entire stations will be transitioned into charging stations for EVs.
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post #202 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

It actually pretty much is... Batteries are expensive, but that's okay. As technology gets more advanced we'll get much better batteries for a much lower cost. I' mentioned battery energy density as the main problem, as these things slowly get ironed out, electric cars will become more and more common on the road. Imo, the future of cars is already decided. Once the writing becomes very, very obvious, I think we will see major energy companies make massive switches to electricity. Big corporations are extremely averse to risk (and thus not innovative) and will only invest when the payout is virtually guaranteed (or they think is guaranteed). Sooner or later all of our gas stations will start carrying 1 "pump" for EVs. Then 2, then 3, and then the entire stations will be transitioned into charging stations for EVs.

As an extremely long-range prediction I agree its likely electric will dominate the market several decades from now but it will have to be a very gradual process if, for no other reason, the fact that our power grid infrastructure is woefully inadequate to simply switch everyone over to EV's tomorrow, regardless of what business decisions the auto manufacturers come up with.
post #203 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

As an extremely long-range prediction I agree its likely electric will dominate the market several decades from now but it will have to be a very gradual process if, for no other reason, the fact that our power grid infrastructure is woefully inadequate to simply switch everyone over to EV's tomorrow, regardless of what business decisions the auto manufacturers come up with.

Yeah, the infrastructure in the United States is in a pitiful state.

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

This is the kind of thing Federal and Local dollars should be spent on... Especially since we are near the next great "revolution". The private sector can fund a lot of things, like today's digital highway, but we can't expect it to build our power grids, roads, and sewers without economic incentives.

And here's a different but fantastic piece on infrastructure as well if you guys are interested in the subject.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/truth-about-infrastructure

There are some pretty significant problems to be solved as we head towards maturation of EV technology.
Edited by HanSomPa - 5/1/17 at 10:12pm
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post #204 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

It actually pretty much is... Batteries are expensive, but that's okay. As technology gets more advanced we'll get much better batteries for a much lower cost. I' mentioned battery energy density as the main problem, as these things slowly get ironed out, electric cars will become more and more common on the road. Imo, the future of cars is already decided. Once the writing becomes very, very obvious, I think we will see major energy companies make massive switches to electricity. Big corporations are extremely averse to risk (and thus not innovative) and will only invest when the payout is virtually guaranteed (or they think is guaranteed). Sooner or later all of our gas stations will start carrying 1 "pump" for EVs. Then 2, then 3, and then the entire stations will be transitioned into charging stations for EVs.

Cost is the main thing holding back EVs. Majority won't spend the money for one and I see why. So until they are more affordable EVs will be a small spec in the market. These truck companies have money though. Initial investment will be high, but spending hundreds of thousands to millions on gas per year down to hundreds to thousands with electricity will be enough motive.

An electric car would cost me less than $10 per month to run vs $40 per week with my ICE.. Plus the inconvenience of having to go to the gas station...
post #205 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Cost is the main thing holding back EVs. Majority won't spend the money for one and I see why. So until they are more affordable EVs will be a small spec in the market. These truck companies have money though. Initial investment will be high, but spending hundreds of thousands to millions on gas per year down to hundreds to thousands with electricity will be enough motive.

An electric car would cost me less than $10 per month to run vs $40 per week with my ICE.. Plus the inconvenience of having to go to the gas station...

I still wonder if battery-powered EV's are really the actual end game for the industry or more of a bridge to a more sustainable, affordable, and adaptable future technology. To me fuel cells make so much more sense than batteries, but of course cost (and hydrogen paranoia) stand in the way. A fuel cell EV would function basically the same as the petrol vehicles we have today (in terms of user experience). You'd simply convert gas stations to hydrogen stations, fill up would be very similar (no long recharge times), and the power grid infrastructure wouldn't need a complete overhaul.

Its like when Bluray's became the new "future" of media consumption. At the time I definitely was impressed with Bluray, but still felt like the real future would be something more revolutionary. It turns out physical media itself was on borrowed time and nowadays Bluray is well on its way out to pasture. The technology that actually will ultimately replace ICE may not have even been invented yet guys...
post #206 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I still wonder if battery-powered EV's are really the actual end game for the industry or more of a bridge to a more sustainable, affordable, and adaptable future technology. To me fuel cells make so much more sense than batteries, but of course cost (and hydrogen paranoia) stand in the way. A fuel cell EV would function basically the same as the petrol vehicles we have today (in terms of user experience). You'd simply convert gas stations to hydrogen stations, fill up would be very similar (no long recharge times), and the power grid infrastructure wouldn't need a complete overhaul.

Its like when Bluray's became the new "future" of media consumption. At the time I definitely was impressed with Bluray, but still felt like the real future would be something more revolutionary. It turns out physical media itself was on borrowed time and nowadays Bluray is well on its way out to pasture. The technology that actually will ultimately replace ICE may not have even been invented yet guys...

I do not think ICE will ever be v replaced fully. When it comes to pure distance an ICE truck or car wins hands down right now.

But at the rate battery technology is improving... Who knows.

Also infrastructure like yo said. We would need charging stations in between long hauls.
post #207 of 334
ICE would be preserved by hobbyists and the likes, they're technically a mechanic's dream of art.
post #208 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

...

And Fitz, I apologize for the type. I'm not really desperate.... it was just a typo thumb.gif

Thanks but I'm more concerned about you quoting someone else and accusing me of having made the quote and quoting me out of context.

You know who said/typed what.... no need to go that route....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Range and cost is a really big deal to a trucking company. Right now we are suffering loss of profit on regulated electronic emission control systems.

Here's the upside!

If you don't have emissions, you don't need to control them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Here's the upside!

If you don't have emissions, you don't need to control them.

Who would have thought rolleyes.gif

KEY WORD in my statement was not emissions, it was ELECTRONIC.......

Additional comment:

The very first electronic device to go bad is lighting ftw..... I've had to work on almost all electronics on newer tractors even before the mechanical parts..... including the batteries. Even though the batteries are Lead/Acid, I am 100% sure the batteries in EV's are much more reliable. But the connections and wiring will be no more or less reliable than any wiring on a tractor now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

It actually pretty much is... Batteries are expensive, but that's okay. As technology gets more advanced we'll get much better batteries for a much lower cost. I' mentioned battery energy density as the main problem, as these things slowly get ironed out, electric cars will become more and more common on the road. Imo, the future of cars is already decided. Once the writing becomes very, very obvious, I think we will see major energy companies make massive switches to electricity. Big corporations are extremely averse to risk (and thus not innovative) and will only invest when the payout is virtually guaranteed (or they think is guaranteed). Sooner or later all of our gas stations will start carrying 1 "pump" for EVs. Then 2, then 3, and then the entire stations will be transitioned into charging stations for EVs.

Cost is the main thing holding back EVs. Majority won't spend the money for one and I see why. So until they are more affordable EVs will be a small spec in the market. These truck companies have money though. Initial investment will be high, but spending hundreds of thousands to millions on gas per year down to hundreds to thousands with electricity will be enough motive.

An electric car would cost me less than $10 per month to run vs $40 per week with my ICE.. Plus the inconvenience of having to go to the gas station...

Bingo.

Costs.... and unforeseen reliability.
Edited by ShrimpBrime - 5/1/17 at 11:18pm
post #209 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

...

And Fitz, I apologize for the type. I'm not really desperate.... it was just a typo thumb.gif

Thanks but I'm more concerned about you quoting someone else and accusing me of having made the quote and quoting me out of context.

You know who said/typed what.... no need to go that route...

Yes, there is a need to "go that route". By partially quoting me, taking what I said out of context, changing what I actually said, and by accusing me of saying something that someone else said, you misrepresented the facts and made it appear I didn't know what I was talking about. When I am attacked in such an underhanded way, I will defend myself. whether you like it or not. Whether or not you did it intentionally or not is immaterial but the damage inflicted is the same.

Before you accuse me of doing the same to you when I posted my rebuttal to the fallacious comments in the post I quoted, keep in mind I pointed out where your comments were inaccurate and why. I also included enough of each one of the quotes taken from your post to include the context. I also used ellipses to indicate I was not quoting the entire post, something you did not so. What you did was irresponsible and inexcusable.
     
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post #210 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

...

And Fitz, I apologize for the type. I'm not really desperate.... it was just a typo thumb.gif

Thanks but I'm more concerned about you quoting someone else and accusing me of having made the quote and quoting me out of context.

You know who said/typed what.... no need to go that route...

Yes, there is a need to go that route. By partially quoting me, taking what I said out of context, changing what I actually said, and by accusing me of saying something that someone else said, you misrepresented the facts and made it appear I didn't know what I was talking about. When I am attacked in such an underhanded way, I will defend myself. Whether or not you did it intentionally or not is immaterial but the damage inflicted is the same.

Before you accuse me of doing the same to you when I posted my rebuttal to the fallacious comments in the post I quoted, keep in mind I pointed out where your comments were inaccurate and why. I also included enough of each one of the quotes taken from your post to include the context. I also used ellipses to indicate I was not quoting the entire post, something you did not so. What you did was irresponsible and inexcusable.

W/E if you has an issue, please PM me. Stay on topic. It's irresponsible and inexcusable to do otherwise....

Or you just don't want to take responsibility for saying we no longer need to PM our tractors because they are EV...... lol
Edited by ShrimpBrime - 5/1/17 at 11:35pm
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