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post #71 of 334
This was the last forum I expected to find people so afraid and so conservative about new technology.
post #72 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's not my point. My point is that the energy required to haul a massive weight like that of a loaded down semi is exponentially more than that of a small car, and that massive energy requirement will destroy range. I'm not saying EV motors can't do it, but the energy requirements of the batteries will be much, much higher than that of a small car, meaning less range. Let's not forget the huge amount of time it still takes an EV to recharge (even with fast charging). Now imagine how long it would take to recharge a battery pack 10x-20x larger?

The new 2170 cells have ~50% more charge than the outgoing high end Li-ion. With a small network of swap-ready batteries you could easily get a semi-truck an incredible distance in the legal allowed amount of time a person can drive. One swap at ~300 miles will allow a driver to fill a full legal shift in a day with minutes of down time.

To give you an idea of power to weight of engines.....

The Koenigsegg Regera has a hybrid system with a combined drive-train weight of about 500 lbs. This drive-train puts out 1500 HP and almost 2000 Lb ft of torque. By comparison just the Detroit Diesel DD15 weighs in at 2970 lbs, generates 500 HP, and ~1850 Lb ft of torque. Just by gutting the diesel you have room for ~2400 lbs worth of battery which is two Tesla Model S batteries.

You still have the fuel tanks to gut, the ~2300 lb transmission to gut, the heavier brakes are gutted as well. Rough math puts it at about 6 model S batteries on a semi and you keep the same weight.

Put technology out 10 years from now and you won't have diesel semi-trucks on the road anymore. They will be autonomous and electric, costing just pennies per mile to operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Electric Tractors will not be common place for well more than 10 years.

To many greeds in the Big oil industry.

Besides the fact that most common tractors have more issues with DPF and DEF electrical. Sensors, wiring and even the ACM, BCM and can include failure of ECM modules.

Say no to wires.

Batteries blow up.

Saw mention of locomotive, diesel/electric...... Well it took about two decades of this particular technology to catch the horse power of simple steam locomotives.....

In our fleet of 67 tractors, our oldest models are the most reliable. Very very few electrical components to repair. Oh the water pump is bad? No problem 1 hour fix. Electrical? Well that requires a lap top, expensive software, hours of schooling and nothing but..... more parts more problems. More electrical more problems.

Now build a tractor completely of electrical and drive that through the salt belt of America. Good freaking luck.

The implementation of the technologies is the reason - not the method. In an all electric system you won't have these types of failure points as systems are redundant and just better engineered. Trying to draw conclusions about the future based off what (old tech) you have seen today isn't very wise.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/29/17 at 12:04am
    
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post #73 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Electric Tractors will not be common place for well more than 10 years.

To many greeds in the Big oil industry.

Besides the fact that most common tractors have more issues with DPF and DEF electrical. Sensors, wiring and even the ACM, BCM and can include failure of ECM modules.

Say no to wires.

Batteries blow up.

Saw mention of locomotive, diesel/electric...... Well it took about two decades of this particular technology to catch the horse power of simple steam locomotives.....

In our fleet of 67 tractors, our oldest models are the most reliable. Very very few electrical components to repair. Oh the water pump is bad? No problem 1 hour fix. Electrical? Well that requires a lap top, expensive software, hours of schooling and nothing but..... more parts more problems. More electrical more problems.

Now build a tractor completely of electrical and drive that through the salt belt of America. Good freaking luck.

Bingo. More points of failure, more parts to corrode.
post #74 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Electric Tractors will not be common place for well more than 10 years.

To many greeds in the Big oil industry.

Besides the fact that most common tractors have more issues with DPF and DEF electrical. Sensors, wiring and even the ACM, BCM and can include failure of ECM modules.

Say no to wires.

Batteries blow up.

Saw mention of locomotive, diesel/electric...... Well it took about two decades of this particular technology to catch the horse power of simple steam locomotives.....

In our fleet of 67 tractors, our oldest models are the most reliable. Very very few electrical components to repair. Oh the water pump is bad? No problem 1 hour fix. Electrical? Well that requires a lap top, expensive software, hours of schooling and nothing but..... more parts more problems. More electrical more problems.

Now build a tractor completely of electrical and drive that through the salt belt of America. Good freaking luck.

Bingo. More points of failure, more parts to corrode.

Today's automobiles have far more "points of failure" (i.e. they are more complex) and yet they last longer with less maintenance and far less body rot.
     
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post #75 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

having 10x bigger gas tanks on ICE trucks offer much more milage.

How are the physics somehow different for EVs? confused.gif

energy density.

diesel fuel offers 48 Megajoules (13,333 Watthour) per kilogram, where as lithium batteries offers 1~3 Megajoule (278~834 Watthour) per kilogram depending on which type.
the weight of a battery to match the same mileage of a diesel truck would need to be at least 10times higher than the diesel fuel's weight, which would be a wooping 2,550 kilograms of battery.
in comparison the curbweight of a diesel-type semi-trailer, with a 40foot empty container attached, weights only 30,000 kilograms.


though on the other hand, electric semi would cost much less to operate, since electricity is cheaper than fuel.
Edited by epic1337 - 4/29/17 at 1:01am
post #76 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

energy density.

diesel fuel offers 48 Megajoules per kilogram, where as lithium batteries offers 1~3 Megajoule per kilogram depending on which type.
the weight of a battery to match the same mileage of a diesel truck would need to be at least 10times higher than the diesel fuel's weight, which would be a wooping 76,000 kilograms of battery.
in comparison the curbweight of a diesel-type semi-trailer, with a 40foot empty container attached, weights only 30,000 kilograms.


though on the other hand, electric semi would cost much less to operate, since electricity is cheaper than fuel.

Based on what I am reading, the battery in the Semi will weigh in at 2 tonnes. With 500 mile range.
post #77 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunneY View Post

Can these electric trucks last a million miles or more?

Can they travel several thousand miles without stopping?

Are they easily worked on by the operator?

I see your arguments but they dont readily apply to the trucking and automotive/industrial industry

Most likely they will be more reliable than your regular truck, as being electric will mean less moving and complicated components.
Distance will in the future be better, and worked by the operator? I don't see it any different. Maybe except a few less things to do.

Most likely the electric trucks will be shoved down nay-sayers throats soon enough, once it can successfully replace the regular trucks in the cities. And once the distance problem is fixed, more electric trucks will go in there.

You are acting as if someone is taking your favorite toy. It is just a truck, with an electric instead of regular engine.
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post #78 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

Based on what I am reading, the battery in the Semi will weigh in at 2 tonnes. With 500 mile range.

i find that dubious.
post #79 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i find that dubious.

7 tonnes for what?
post #80 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

7 tonnes for what?

i misread your post, i was mentioning the fuel weight of a full-tank diesel semi.
it weights 7tonnes at 9,000gallons. oops, this was a tanker capacity.
full-tank semis has about 300gallons which weights about 255kilograms.

i find it dubious that a 2tonne lithium battery, which has less than a 10th of diesel fuel's energy density, could have an identical mileage.


edit: speaking of lithium batteries, how much would a 2tonne lithium battery pack cost?
Edited by epic1337 - 4/29/17 at 1:08am
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