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post #81 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post

7 tonnes for what?

i misread your post, i was mentioning the fuel weight of a full-tank diesel semi.
it weights 7tonnes at 9,000gallons. oops, this was a tanker capacity.
full-tank semis has about 300gallons which weights about 255kilograms.

i find it dubious that a 2tonne lithium battery, which has less than a 10th of diesel's energy density, could have an identical mileage.
But did you account for the weight of the whole system and the less-than-efficient transformation of diesel's potential energy into kinetic?
    
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post #82 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

But did you account for the weight of the whole system and the less-than-efficient transformation of diesel's potential energy into kinetic?

yes, the actual disparity between Tesla's 2170 and a diesel's energy density is about 41times.
Tesla 2170 = 325Wh/Kg
Diesel fuel = 13,333Wh/Kg

but an EV's power system are about 3times more efficient in converting energy into power, so the actual energy requirement is much lower.
considering EVs are also lighter in general, this roughly sums up to about 10times more battery weight vs diesel fuel per mileage.


on that note, i think their "500mile" mileage is one of those "best case scenarios", where the actual mileage can vary between 400~500 mile.

on a further note, an old-model diesel semitruck would have about 3~5 MPG, so their 300gallon tank would have about 900~1,500 mile range.
Edited by epic1337 - 4/29/17 at 1:37am
post #83 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post
 

They won't sell. Talk to any semi truck drivers. They hate the modern technology, and especially emissions equipment. They won't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole. Also, a short range is not exactly great for a semi.

Maybe in the US, but in Europe they would be great if truck stops had a place to charge them. There is a lot more space in semi trucks for a lot of batteries compared to cars, if they can get 600 mile ranges out of them (I'd be surprised if the range is 600 miles or less) and can fully charge them in 2 hours, then they're good enough to be used properly on the roads in Europe.

 

Electric motors could also produce significantly more torque than turbo diesel motors. You can get electric motors that can produce over 800kW, 4000Nm (~1100hp, ~2950lb-ft), as a comparison, the most powerful commercially available truck you can get in Europe at the moment (Volvo FH16 750) "only" has 560kW, 3550Nm (~750hp, ~2620lb-ft).

post #84 of 334
I bet these will be used to test self driving semi software as well. Imagine being a large company and you just need semi highway to highway to warehouses in middle of nowhere... don't have to pay a driver 70k a year... hehehe the future is coming, give it 5-10 years.

edit: not to mention not having to pay full benefits, and it never has to sleep...
Edited by caenlen - 4/29/17 at 1:55am
    
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post #85 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Maybe in the US, but in Europe they would be great if truck stops had a place to charge them. There is a lot more space in semi trucks for a lot of batteries compared to cars, if they can get 600 mile ranges out of them (I'd be surprised if the range is 600 miles or less) and can fully charge them in 2 hours, then they're good enough to be used properly on the roads in Europe.

i think fully charging a 2~3tonne lithium pack within 2hours would put the grid into a really bad situation once theres more than a few trucks doing it at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Electric motors could also produce significantly more torque than turbo diesel motors. You can get electric motors that can produce over 800kW, 4000Nm (~1100hp, ~2950lb-ft), as a comparison, the most powerful commercially available truck you can get in Europe at the moment (Volvo FH16 750) "only" has 560kW, 3550Nm (~750hp, ~2620lb-ft).

indeed, the capability of an electric motor is much more practical in hauling heavy loads, thats why trains uses electric motors now a days.
there are other side-benefits too, like very little idling energy(fuel) consumption, fast starting from full-stop, and regenerative capabilities.
Edited by epic1337 - 4/29/17 at 2:04am
post #86 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i misread your post, i was mentioning the fuel weight of a full-tank diesel semi.
it weights 7tonnes at 9,000gallons. oops, this was a tanker capacity.
full-tank semis has about 300gallons which weights about 255kilograms.

i find it dubious that a 2tonne lithium battery, which has less than a 10th of diesel fuel's energy density, could have an identical mileage.


edit: speaking of lithium batteries, how much would a 2tonne lithium battery pack cost?

Higher efficiency in turning those joules into torque. ICE wastes TONS of energy as purely unused heat.
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post #87 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Higher efficiency in turning those joules into torque. ICE wastes TONS of energy as purely unused heat.

30% is the average, the most recent ones have over 40% from what i recall.
so yeah, 60%~70% of the fuel's energy is turned into waste heat.
post #88 of 334
With many cities facing emissions problems, Musk should be looking at buses.....

In Europe, diesel is now the anti-christ, cars may/will be charged to even enter city centres.

London will go zero emissions in a relatively short time I predict.

They are even proposing to reduce speed limits on motorways to reduce emissions at "hot spots" here in the UK

dunx

P.S. It may take a while to fully develop, but they will get there in the end.
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post #89 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002dunx View Post

With many cities facing emissions problems, Musk should be looking at buses.....

In Europe, diesel is now the anti-christ, cars may/will be charged to even enter city centres.

London will go zero emissions in a relatively short time I predict.

They are even proposing to reduce speed limits on motorways to reduce emissions at "hot spots" here in the UK

dunx

P.S. It may take a while to fully develop, but they will get there in the end.

*shrugs* all it takes is one big oil price hike.
post #90 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

30% is the average, the most recent ones have over 40% from what i recall.
so yeah, 60%~70% of the fuel's energy is turned into waste heat.

For gasoline you can get up to the 60%-70% mark, but the methods for doing so can create a huge fire hazard in a wreck. You effectively heat the gasoline and evaporate that into the intake stream, by drawing the intake charge through the liquid fuel. Backfires would create catastrophic failure though, and in a wreck you have pre-heated liquid gasoline in the engine bay.

Diesel has no such way to get better flame front dynamics, the way the fuel burns inside the combustion chamber is too slow (cant really get a vapor from the fuel). Propane compression ignition engines do much better, but the fuel itself is much less energy dense and fairly dangerous in a crash scenario as well as being much less widespread as far as re-fueling stations go.

One thing EV proponents are glossing over is the fact that EV's are not much cleaner than ICE at the moment, at least carbon footprint wise. Unless you charge it with electricity solely coming from nuclear, wind, solar, or hydro power at least (which is not how the grid in any developed country works). The real goal should be getting to 90% efficiency with the tech we have now, be it ICE or power generation/transmission. Transmission losses also account for a good chunk of wasted power in EV's.
Edited by KarathKasun - 4/29/17 at 3:39am
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