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[KitGuru] AMD Radeon RX Vega caught hiding in plain sight - Page 24

post #231 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by renx View Post

Of course. Also they shouldn't use it when it's inside of a 400 degree oven.

Just read a little bit about Vega Instinct. Watch the enclosure as well.
It is indeed passively cooled, of course.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-announces-radeon-instinct-including-vega-based-mi25-accelerator.html
Seriously, it is not passively cooled. I mean, there is no fan mounted on the graphics card, yes, in that sense it is, but a 300W card will not be truly passively cooled unless it has a heatsink the size of a small child. It is actively cooled, the fans simply are not mounted on the card. They are mounted on the server chassis. It will not function in your home PC case, nor in mine. it will function in a case designed for it, equipped with the necessary high power fans.

It has nothing to do with it being especially power efficient or cool-running (not saying it isn't, but it's definitely a ~300W card). It transforms 300j/s of energy into heat and that has to be dissipated by a cooling solution designed to do so, which is not, for example, this one: https://www.quietpc.com/pal-ne5x75t00941-1073h, which is actually passively cooled and does not need any specific amount of airflow to function correctly.

In short, the fact that's passively cooled is neither a strike against Vega or a strike in its favor, it's just how server cards work.
Edited by Pyrotagonist - 5/1/17 at 9:46pm
post #232 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

Seriously, it is not passively cooled. I mean, there is no fan mounted on the graphics card, yes, in that sense it is, but a 300W card will not be truly passively cooled unless it has a heatsink the size of a small child. It is actively cooled, the fans simply are not mounted on the card. They are mounted on the server chassis. It will not function in your home PC case, nor in mine. it will function in a case designed for it, equipped with the necessary high power fans.

It has nothing to do with it being especially power efficient or cool-running (not saying it isn't, but it's definitely a ~300W card). It transforms 300j/s of energy into heat and that has to be dissipated by a cooling solution designed to do so, which is not, for example, this one: https://www.quietpc.com/pal-ne5x75t00941-1073h, which is actually passively cooled and does not need any specific amount of airflow to function correctly.


This is the datasheet for the P100. It states cooling is Passive. Passive used in this context means no air flow generated from the card itself. So youre both correct, but passive is the word used to describe the heatsink on these types of cards
post #233 of 664
AMD is well aware of where Vega needs to be in terms of performance vs Nvidia's top GPU's so let's just wait and see before calling it a fail. If it comes out and is no faster than the 1080 then I'm sure plenty of you won't be able to wait to flame AMD like always, but I have to believe that it will be much closer to the 1080Ti than people seem to be expecting.
post #234 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

AMD is well aware of where Vega needs to be in terms of performance vs Nvidia's top GPU's so let's just wait and see before calling it a fail. If it comes out and is no faster than the 1080 then I'm sure plenty of you won't be able to wait to flame AMD like always, but I have to believe that it will be much closer to the 1080Ti than people seem to be expecting.

Yeah. This is not a Fury X launch. The have had since Titan X 2016 to get the performance level. With will have to be a 290X launch.
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post #235 of 664
Some possible good news is the tape around the PC running the DOOM demo. If it was throttled Vega running that demo it's a little bit more impressive.
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post #236 of 664
I think at worse Vega will hit the performance target AMD wants but have no OC headroom left like Fury X.
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post #237 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by renx View Post

Of course. Also they shouldn't use it when it's inside of a 400 degree oven.

Just read a little bit about Vega Instinct. Watch the enclosure as well.
It is indeed passively cooled, of course.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-announces-radeon-instinct-including-vega-based-mi25-accelerator.html
It's passively cooled in the sense the card doesn't have a fan, but the card will quickly overheat without air flow. If you read the spec sheets for cars like that, they specify a minimum air-flow through the card. Large workstations and servers have powerful ducted fans that will force air through the car.
post #238 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by helis4life View Post

That is a faily useless comparison, the MI25 v 1080ti. The MI25 is a full HPC part with intact DP processing ability. For an apples to apples comparison you need to compare it to the P100. And then you would see its 300w v 300w, yet the MI25 has a higher theoretical TFLOP value than the P100

Again, you can not compare MI25 to a 1080 Ti. Only head to head examples like P100 would be feasable. Yet it is still stupid because both cards are not usable for gaming. They are practically accelerator cards without video output.

Not to mention the TFLOP comparison AMD vs Nvidia is not accurate because AMD loses in real scenarios most of the time even with higher numbers. Geoxile was right about this. Yet even against a Geforce, the MI25 is at a disadvantage because it has all the compute stuff onbaord. In a sense it is similar like Fermi as an architecture was build up. There was way too much compute and FP64 units in there, which were practically useless for games.

AMD seems to focus more on the professional side where the big money can be made. If the consumer Radeons have much of this compute stuff onboard, they will lose in a performance dual against a non-compute Geforce. This could explain why some Vega results are so low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Yeah, I'm still wondering about that 25 TFlop number. AMD was pretty careful not to put a TFlop number on the MI25 press release or specs - that's a derived number from the servers they mention in the release (unless they've clarified that somewhere I missed), which says "up to ...", and the naming convention. Kind of makes me wonder if there might be some shenanigans with that value.

There is a rumour about a dual-Vega card for professional use. They probalby patched together another Frankenstein's monster in a Dual-GPU setup like the Radeon Pro Duo before. Guess such a card would be another 450W power sucker. Nowadays AMD would not dare to release another power hog like the old dual-cards again for consuemers, so you can rest easy when reading on such news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

Some possible good news is the tape around the PC running the DOOM demo. If it was throttled Vega running that demo it's a little bit more impressive.

Wasn't there a rumour that these Vega boards were AIO watercooled like the Fury X?
It is still in discussion, especially about that black cable going into from the side (power were samller red ones!).
I tried to find the pictures again, but they do not help because they were taken too dark.

At least it would makes alot of sense. I see no other reason why AMD made all this fuss with the tape and all other than to hide how behind their Vega samples at the time actually were. Technically it makes zero sense to put in 8pin +6pin to power up the card and then let it starve under throttle like a NANO.

AFAIK the throttling was a myth created by AMD fanboys who still hype Vega to heaven. AMD sandbagging a demo is not their style. Normally they do the exact opposite.
post #239 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Yeah, I'm still wondering about that 25 TFlop number. AMD was pretty careful not to put a TFlop number on the MI25 press release or specs - that's a derived number from the servers they mention in the release (unless they've clarified that somewhere I missed), which says "up to ...", and the naming convention. Kind of makes me wonder if there might be some shenanigans with that value.


It is a 25 TFlop (16 bit) GPU.
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post #240 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

AMD is well aware of where Vega needs to be in terms of performance vs Nvidia's top GPU's so let's just wait and see before calling it a fail. If it comes out and is no faster than the 1080 then I'm sure plenty of you won't be able to wait to flame AMD like always, but I have to believe that it will be much closer to the 1080Ti than people seem to be expecting.

This is what the majority of people are doing, but it's difficult to get through to the very few select members who keep riding the AMD fail train bandwagon for each new release.

Fiji was too expensive at launch, but got much better and cheaper over time. Some people will disagree about having big gains over time vs having good launch performance but never improving significantly afterward, I enjoy the former much more since I keep my components longer. Polaris provided a good bridge to maxing out 1080p or making 1440p more accessible, while staying within mid-range prices. Zen finally put AMD CPUs back into a competitive stance, although still lack the high clockability that many of us strive for but don't necessarily need.
    
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