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[KitGuru] AMD Radeon RX Vega caught hiding in plain sight - Page 46

post #451 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

Still, 1060 was sold 3x better than 480 b/c people...

Well you can't force best buy to stock AMD over Nvidia.

Big problem with AMD is that the avj Joe is almost forced to go Nvidia.



AMD has almost always had a better GPU for the same price as the equal Nvidia card. But People can't buy it if the store doesn't stock them, or if Amazon doesn't list them over Nvidia's offerings.

The high end cards only cater to a small % of PC gamers. But AMD not having a option to counter the 1080 is hurting them.


I got my 1080 for that reason. Vega is just coming out too late.
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post #452 of 664
"With Vega 10 clocked at 1.5GHz, we could expect a monstrous 12.5 TFLOPs of FP32 compute performance, and the high-speed 8GB of HBM2 with what I think will be the start of the show in High Bandwidth Cache (HBC), AMD could have one of the fastest graphics cards on the market with its Radeon RX Vega.

RX Vega from $399-$1000
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1070) - 4GB HBM2, cut down Vega 11 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080) - 4GB HBM2, cut down Vega 10 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080 11Gbps) - 8GB HBM2, cut down Vega 10 GPU (slightly higher clocks)
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080 Ti) - 8GB HBM2, full Vega 10 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (TITAN Xp) - 16GB HBM2, dual full Vega 10 GPUs"
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57366/amd-radeon-rx-vega-specs-leaked-shy-monster/index.html

What things could look like.
post #453 of 664
those are hypothesis, though they're close enough.

however, i still think that AMD would have a 3072bit 6GB version for their Vega 11.
simply put, aside from the 64ROP with 4096bit 8GB which is Vega 10, the next smallest thing is either a 32ROP 2048bit 4GB, or a 48ROP 3072bit 6GB.

e.g.
(Vega 10 ) 4096:256:64 | 4096bit 8GB @ 1Ghz = 1024GB/s (possibly $599?)
(Vega 10 ) 3584:224:64 | 4096bit 8GB @ 1Ghz = 1024GB/s (cutdown of one above, example of a $499 die?)
(Vega 11?) 3072:192:48 | 3072bit 6GB @ 1Ghz = 768GB/s (possibly $399?)
(Vega 11?) 2560:160:48 | 3072bit 6GB @ 1Ghz = 768GB/s (cutdown of one above, example of a $299 die?)
(Vega 11?) 2048:128:32 | 2048bit 4GB @ 1Ghz = 512GB/s
( RX 580 ) 2304:144:32 | 256bit 8GB @ 4Ghz = 256GB/s

4096bit on a 2048:128:32 core configuration would simply make no sense.
furthermore, 2048:128:32 in general doesn't make much sense either, it'll sit right beside RX580 in terms of performance.
theres also the chance that Vega 11 would be using either GDDR5 or GDDR5X instead of HBM, which would make it cheaper to produce.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/4/17 at 8:26am
post #454 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Well you can't force best buy to stock AMD over Nvidia.

Big problem with AMD is that the avj Joe is almost forced to go Nvidia.



AMD has almost always had a better GPU for the same price as the equal Nvidia card. But People can't buy it if the store doesn't stock them, or if Amazon doesn't list them over Nvidia's offerings.

The high end cards only cater to a small % of PC gamers. But AMD not having a option to counter the 1080 is hurting them.


I got my 1080 for that reason. Vega is just coming out too late.

Don't forget people used to know ATi to be a superior brand, im sure 90% of the population have no clue what is RTG, hell some don't even know such thing as AMD exists.
post #455 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

They'll do like intel. You'll have overpriced gaming cards with little gains like the desktop quad cores and then you'll have the high end overpriced cards for 1000$ like the extreme edition CPUs, and then you'll have your workstation / server GPUs for deep learning that will be very expensive, like Xeons.
If the CPU division is profitable and the graphics division seems too far gone, we may see them stabilize the company by concentrating on CPU sales and scaling back the graphics department to smaller offerings.. like the Polaris launch.

Unlike Intel Nvidia still has room to increase performance. There are several node shrinks incoming. From 16nm to 12nm. Then first to 10nm and/or 7nm. The numbers may differ depending on the marketing department of the foundry. The only reason Nvidia had to repeat the Intel scheme would be, if they have a unpresented lead like back in teh 8800 days. After the big hit they had years of refreshes and even some rebrands. Yet they can always aim higher. First get 4k resolution undner control with the mainstream, then go over 5k with the final goal of 8k super-duper-high resolution. This is the path they probably will take. In here no regard to upcoming memory technologies.

In my mind it is still questionable if AMD can keep up with all those needed development. If they only release entire new cards every 2 years, they may fall behind. You can not think of everything and be lacklaster in exactly those areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

Its a real possibility and, as a consumer wanting competition for better prices, I hope it doesn't happen.

As the years with Intel having no competition showed, the customers have to bite the sour apple or don't buy at all. People don't need new hardware every years like it was used to be. If your scenario happens, the customers only option is to stay on the same hardware longer. Something AMD users are practically used to nowadays. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by New green View Post

"With Vega 10 clocked at 1.5GHz, we could expect a monstrous 12.5 TFLOPs of FP32 compute performance, and the high-speed 8GB of HBM2 with what I think will be the start of the show in High Bandwidth Cache (HBC), AMD could have one of the fastest graphics cards on the market with its Radeon RX Vega.

RX Vega from $399-$1000
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1070) - 4GB HBM2, cut down Vega 11 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080) - 4GB HBM2, cut down Vega 10 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080 11Gbps) - 8GB HBM2, cut down Vega 10 GPU (slightly higher clocks)
AMD Radeon RX Vega (GTX 1080 Ti) - 8GB HBM2, full Vega 10 GPU
AMD Radeon RX Vega (TITAN Xp) - 16GB HBM2, dual full Vega 10 GPUs"
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57366/amd-radeon-rx-vega-specs-leaked-shy-monster/index.html

What things could look like.

Who in their right mind would buy a 4GB card in 2017?
HBM has proven to be doomed with low memory capacity. Even the HBCC crap will not save this fact. If memory is full, it is full. Period!

I also doubt Vega will have that many version. Maybe 2 +1, one big like Fury X - one cut down like Fury and a special edition like the old NANO was. If AMD really has so many editions, they will most likely have low availability too. They can't produce chips infinitely. The line-up is confusing none the less. Seeing the suggestion for the prices is laughabel too. having the same chip from 400 to 1000 bucks is too much. An additional 4Gb are not worth several hundret bucks more. The market would not fall for that scheme.
post #456 of 664
Yes, 4 GB, whatever the memory type, isn't enough for a higher segment card in 2017. PCIe bandwidth to transfer needed data is still the same, it's impossible for HBM 2 to do miracles there.
 
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post #457 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

HBM has proven to be doomed with low memory capacity. Even the HBCC crap will not save this fact. If memory is full, it is full. Period!

HBM can still be developed if they simply do either of the two things.
one is increase HBM stack quantity and density per stack, which is what they're doing right now.
another is develop a way to allow multiple chip per bus, similar to how DRAM channels can control two DIMMs at once.

in fact, Samsung has already projected the possibility of 8GB per HBM 8Hi-stack chip, with a maximum of 48GB for 6chips on a 6144bit bus.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/samsung-expects-graphics-cards-with-6144-bit-bus-48gb-of-hbm-memory-onboard/
Edited by epic1337 - 5/4/17 at 8:35am
post #458 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Who in their right mind would buy a 4GB card in 2017?
HBM has proven to be doomed with low memory capacity. Even the HBCC crap will not save this fact. If memory is full, it is full. Period!

I also doubt Vega will have that many version. Maybe 2 +1, one big like Fury X - one cut down like Fury and a special edition like the old NANO was. If AMD really has so many editions, they will most likely have low availability too. They can't produce chips infinitely. The line-up is confusing none the less. Seeing the suggestion for the prices is laughabel too. having the same chip from 400 to 1000 bucks is too much. An additional 4Gb are not worth several hundret bucks more. The market would not fall for that scheme.

You see Ryzen? Same 8 core chip in multiple configs in multiple price ranges. It is the most cost effective way to do a product stack.

I would not be surprised if they did it with Vega.

I will take 1 $399 cut down Vega with AIO please guitar.gif
post #459 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Yes, 4 GB, whatever the memory type, isn't enough for a higher segment card in 2017. PCIe bandwidth to transfer needed data is still the same, it's impossible for HBM 2 to do miracles there.
For top segment maxed settings 4GB isn't enough, but for high (1070/1080) it is still good. Case in point: find a game with recommended specs of more than 4GB vram.
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post #460 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Who in their right mind would buy a 4GB card in 2017?
HBM has proven to be doomed with low memory capacity. Even the HBCC crap will not save this fact. If memory is full, it is full. Period!

I also doubt Vega will have that many version. Maybe 2 +1, one big like Fury X - one cut down like Fury and a special edition like the old NANO was. If AMD really has so many editions, they will most likely have low availability too. They can't produce chips infinitely. The line-up is confusing none the less. Seeing the suggestion for the prices is laughabel too. having the same chip from 400 to 1000 bucks is too much. An additional 4Gb are not worth several hundret bucks more. The market would not fall for that scheme.

I'm confused by your statements.

Reading through the pages the idea was a full vega 10 chip that can't at least compete with 1080ti is a fail yet this hypothesized structure of a full vega with 8gb that might do just that and you choose to highlight the hypothesized cut down 11/10 4gb aimed at 1070/1080? If it can compete, which I don't know if it can, who in their right minds would buy a 1070/1080? That is the epitome of pushing mindshare when you suggest a supposed cut down vega 11, cut down vega 10, full vega 10, and dual full vega 10 are all the same chip with just a difference in 4gb to 8gb hbm2.

AMD does not want to start a price war. Look at 1070 prices hovering just below and at $400 and titan xp at $1200 and tell me with a straight face a hypothetical pricing structure between $400-$1000 is laughable.
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