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Building a new machine, tell me what I am doing wrong

1K views 40 replies 14 participants last post by  CravinR1 
#1 ·
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zhBJD8

Assembled this on PC Parts Picker. Looking for a solid machine that wont completely break the bank. Can afford to go higher, but prefer keeping price where its at. Going to be recycling an additional HDD from my old machine. If you see any items where I can cut costs without hurting performance (or increase cost slightly for a much better output), let me know.

I am also super iffy on the cooler. I /hate/ CPU coolers with a passion. I hate trying to figure out which one should be the best, I hate trying to figure out whether or not they will work with my case, I hate trying to install them, and 99 times out of 100, I hate how they look. Any advise on that front would be much appreciated.

And finally, where is a good place to pick up a copy of Windows? I think I can reuse my old machine's education edition, but I am not 100% sure on that.
 
#2 ·
Your build looks a lot like this one: http://www.overclock.net/t/1630745/new-build-comments-sugjestions/0_100

@AlphaC's advice over there is excellent - you should replace that PSU with their suggestion and note the notes
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As far as cooling goes, the Cryorig H7 is the budget cooler of choice these days (as opposed to the 212). If you want more headroom there are a bunch of great options: Scythe Fuma, D15s, PH-TC14PE, Cryorig Universal and a slew of others. @doyll or @ciarlatano can help.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neighborbob View Post

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zhBJD8

I am also super iffy on the cooler. I /hate/ CPU coolers with a passion. I hate trying to figure out which one should be the best, I hate trying to figure out whether or not they will work with my case, I hate trying to install them, and 99 times out of 100, I hate how they look.
This statement resonates deeply with me. Sadly I have no advice to offer since it would always be to go with water however you said you wanted to maintain your budget so I guess only 120 or 140mm AIOs would be the only liquid option for not a lot of money. I find they do work fairly well cooling a CPU normally mounted in the rear exhaust of a conventional designed chassis.

When I do a build for a client and they absolutely want an air cooler for the CPU I stick with Noctua(tons of options for low profile etc.).

Also FWIW: The new Wraith coolers that come with the Ryzen CPUs(other than the 1800x I believe) is pretty damn good and it isn't ugly for a stock cooler either. I would just use that tbh with the build you have listed. I just assembled a 1700 build for a friend and we tested it out before installing his planned AIO cooler. I would have preferred to just leave the Wraith in there but he wanted the look of the AIO.
 
#4 ·
Sealed loop AIOs (CLCs) are considered by may who have lots of experience with good air cooling water cooling systems to be below their acceptable standard of quality .. CLCs also perform no better than top air and cost more with less dependability.

Good looking air coolers include the likes of Dark Rock 3 & Dark Rock Pro 3, TRUE Spirit 140. Macho rev. A, PH-TC14PE, R1 Ultimate and Universal to name a few.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Sealed loop AIOs (CLCs) are considered by may who have lots of experience with good air cooling water cooling systems to be below their acceptable standard of quality .. CLCs also perform no better than top air and cost more with less dependability.

Good looking air coolers include the likes of Dark Rock 3 & Dark Rock Pro 3, TRUE Spirit 140. Macho rev. A, PH-TC14PE, R1 Ultimate and Universal to name a few.
I agree and when I said go water I meant custom loop or an EK Kit at worst which is all well out of the OP budget. The only reason to use a CLC is for aesthetic reasons to me. I tried to convince my buddy to leave that Wraith on as it was easy to cable the fan and hide it nicely where as the AIO is a huge pain for almost no gain. Also the CLCs hit max temp so slow compared to air coolers making any adequate testing take a lot longer.

The BeQuiet units you listed are awesome and awesome looking but they are not cheap at all.
 
#6 ·
@Throth420 I have looked at the stock coolers and really like them, but from what I understand, the 1700 is the only one with the stock cooler. If AMD would sell the Wraith cooler on its own or offer a 1700X model with it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Out of curiosity.. You wouldn't happen to still have that unused cooler on hand, would you?

@Claes: I had a feeling the PSU would be the first thing someone would offer a suggestion on. Made the swap. Went ahead and swapped in the H7 cooler as well, if only as a placeholder till I figure out for sure what I want to do on that front.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neighborbob View Post

@Throth420 I have looked at the stock coolers and really like them, but from what I understand, the 1700 is the only one with the stock cooler. If AMD would sell the Wraith cooler on its own or offer a 1700X model with it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Out of curiosity.. You wouldn't happen to still have that unused cooler on hand, would you?

@Claes: I had a feeling the PSU would be the first thing someone would offer a suggestion on. Made the swap. Went ahead and swapped in the H7 cooler as well, if only as a placeholder till I figure out for sure what I want to do on that front.
My buddy told me I could keep the one I have from his build but I left it at his house. If you want to pay the shipping I can pick it up from him sometime this week and send it out for free man.
 
#8 ·
Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi is supposed to come with AM4 mount out of the box. The H7 (non-quad LUMI) is smaller than the 212 Evo and has less heatpipes so it's more suited to small cases , not so much better performance.

CPU : I'd drop the CPU to Ryzen 7 1700 unless you are leaving it on auto clocks.

Motherboard: With the saved money I'd get MSI B350 Pro Carbon with better audio + VRM power delivery or an ASUS X370 Prime Pro with better VRM , better audio, as well as USB 3.1 Gen 2 and Intel LAN.

CPU cooler: Anyhow I'd buy a Thermalright True Spirit 140 Direct for $40 if $20 is not a problem. https://flash.newegg.com/Product/9SIACFW57P5018 ; the 212 Evo requires a bracket so I'd consider the ones that work out of the box as well such as $20-30 Deepcool Gammax S40 / 400 , $30ish Be Quiet Pure Rock.

Memory: Try to get DDR4 3200MHz CL14 if possible (Samsung B die) for more likelihood of reaching those clocks. If not, anything that is within $10 of your 3000MHz CL15 should be ok.

SSD: 850 Evo 500GB has been around $130 recently I think

GPU: I wouldn't pay $400 for a GTX 1070 8GB until Computex passes and we are sure there will be no $300 contender from AMD in the form of a cut down RX VEGA.

PSU: I'd drop this PSU for a higher quality unit such as the Supernova G2/P2/T2/G3. Even something such as a Seasonic G series / EVGA Supernova GS / XFX XTR would be preferable.

edit: the issue with the MSI Tomahawk board is the VRM is weak for 8 cores also it has no p-state overclocking.
 
#9 ·
@AlphahC
Mobo: For the ASUS one, I am reading a lot of reviews saying ASUS has been pretty slow with driver updates compared to MSI.
Memory: Is the slightly faster clockspeed really worth it?
GPU: *sigh* Thats another 2 weeks I have to wait D: I could always throw my old GPU in for the time being, but throwing a 560 Ti inside a brand new PC just sounds silly.
PSU: Already did that on my revised list.
 
#10 ·
PRIME X370-PRO BIOS 0604 Update AGESA to 1.0.0.4a File Size 5.98 MBytes update 4/10/2017

MSI Tomahawk

AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-28 Version 7A34v15 File Size 8.14 MB - Improved memory compatibility. - Fixed PCIe Hot-plug function issue.
Type AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-26 Version 7A34v14 File Size 8.14 MB - Improved memory compatibility
Type AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-10 Version 7A34v13 File Size 8.14 MB Description - Improved system stability. - Update AGESA to 1.0.0.4a.

MSI B350 Pro Carbon
AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-28 Version 7B00v13 File Size 7.85 MB - Improved memory compatibility. - Fixed PCI-E hot-plug function.
Type AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-26 Version 7B00v12 File Size 7.85 MB File - Improved memory compatibility.
Type AMI BIOS Release Date 2017-04-11 Version 7B00v11 File Size 7.85 MB - Updated AGESA to 1.0.0.4a.

I don't count bugfixes really.
smile.gif
 
#11 ·
I second the thought of dropping the CPU down to a 1700. The 1800X, 1700X, and 1700 are precisely the same CPU with a different number stamped on them and different stock clock speeds, but overclock exactly the same from everything I've seen. They all top out somewhere between 3.9-4.2GHz or so depending on luck and cooling. You could put the ~$45 difference in price towards the cooler or faster memory. Ryzen scales very well with RAM speeds from what I've seen so it's more of a consideration than it has been for a while.
 
#12 ·
So I also have no real experience in overclocking. I built my current machine (which sports an AMD Phenom II 955) with the intention of overclocking but was never able to as I didn't discover till much too late that the CPU was running really hot at stock settings. What would be safe settings that I could reliably expect to be able to overclock a 1700 to?
 
#13 ·
I also recommend the 1700
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neighborbob View Post

So I also have no real experience in overclocking. I built my current machine (which sports an AMD Phenom II 955) with the intention of overclocking but was never able to as I didn't discover till much too late that the CPU was running really hot at stock settings. What would be safe settings that I could reliably expect to be able to overclock a 1700 to?
OC to 3.7 or 3.8GHz @ 1.25V easily on the stock cooler if you have a decent motherboard.


source: http://oc.jagatreview.com/2017/03/overclocking-binning-10-prosesor-amd-ryzen-7-1700/2/


https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/

as for RAM, check here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1627555/ryzen-memory-ic-collection-thread
 
#16 ·
So if I am reading that thread correctly, then the one I linked is indeed a Samsung B-Die
Its model is F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW. The spreadsheet has F4-3200C14D-16GTZ listed and the top sheet lists GTZKW as black/white. Am I indeed reading that correctly?

Edit: Assuming it is, this is what I've got so far.
PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bQtBtJ
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bQtBtJ/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($306.01 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - B350 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX AM4 Motherboard ($133.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($169.00 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card ($393.89 @ Amazon)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($77.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1360.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-22 21:52 EDT-0400

I guess ignore the GPU for now. I don't know what to do on that front D:
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Sealed loop AIOs (CLCs) are considered by may who have lots of experience with good air cooling water cooling systems to be below their acceptable standard of quality .. CLCs also perform no better than top air and cost more with less dependability.

Good looking air coolers include the likes of Dark Rock 3 & Dark Rock Pro 3, TRUE Spirit 140. Macho rev. A, PH-TC14PE, R1 Ultimate and Universal to name a few.
You are so wrong to make a blanket generalization about aios. I have an Alphacool Eisbaer 360 which is an AIO with expansion capabilities. It is far better than 98% of the cpu air coolers on the market is quiet and well made with a copper radiator and a powerful but quiet pump. There also aio units from EK and Swiftech. They all outperform all but the biggest and noisiest air coolers on the market. The $130 and above air coolers may equal but not surpass these units. The most powerfull air coolers often are so massive that their height can be a problem or their fins interfere with memory slots. Know what you are talking about before you make your blanket denunciations.
 
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#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

You are so wrong to make a blanket generalization about aios. I have an Alphacool Eisbaer 360 which is an AIO with expansion capabilities. It is far better than 98% of the cpu air coolers on the market is quiet and well made with a copper radiator and a powerful but quiet pump. There also aio units from EK and Swiftech. They all outperform all but the biggest and noisiest air coolers on the market. The $130 and above air coolers may equal but not surpass these units. The most powerfull air coolers often are so massive that their height can be a problem or their fins interfere with memory slots. Know what you are talking about before you make your blanket denunciations.
Expanable AIOs are a different story...that said it seems the predator is already being phased out by the ek starter kits...the slim is the same price.

I used a Swiftech H220 X2 and it was garbage.

Also he said CLC AIOs...emphasis on the word: closed.
In the end nothing beats a custom loop tailored for the hardware in question but it is very expensive.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

You are so wrong to make a blanket generalization about aios. I have an Alphacool Eisbaer 360 which is an AIO with expansion capabilities. It is far better than 98% of the cpu air coolers on the market is quiet and well made with a copper radiator and a powerful but quiet pump. There also aio units from EK and Swiftech. They all outperform all but the biggest and noisiest air coolers on the market. The $130 and above air coolers may equal but not surpass these units. The most powerfull air coolers often are so massive that their height can be a problem or their fins interfere with memory slots. Know what you are talking about before you make your blanket denunciations.
Indeed, the Eisbaer is much better than CLC AIOs, but it's pump is only just powerful enough for marginal expansion.
I don't know of any air coolers that cost $130 or more.
wink.gif

As long as RAM is normal 32-33mm height and not big fancy 'heat spreader' design that serves no functional purpose there is no memory clearance issues.
SIZE=1] Seems it is you who needs to research and learn before posting things.
[/SIZE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoth420 View Post

Expanable AIOs are a different story...that said it seems the predator is already being phased out by the ek starter kits...the slim is the same price.

I used a Swiftech H220 X2 and it was garbage.

Also he said CLC AIOs...emphasis on the word: closed.
In the end nothing beats a custom loop tailored for the hardware in question but it is very expensive.
What Thoth420 said.
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AIOs contain 2 distinctive groups of cooelers AIOs that are not sealed loop and AIOs that are sealed loop .. CLCs. While the AIOs that are not sealed like Swiftech Hxxx X2, EK Predator (no longer being made), Alphacool Eisbaer, Fractal Design Kelvin and be quiet! Silent Loop are many times better thean CLCs they are still many times worse than a good custom loop. Problem is a top tier air cooler in a case setup to flow air properly will usually perform about the same as open loop AIOs .. and even custom loops as long as overclocking is kept to sensible levels. A top tier air cooler wiill cool up to about 250-300 watts .. and that allow for pretty high overclock wiht a 94-125w CPU.
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@Neighborbob MSI B350 GAMING PRO CARBON has about 70mm center CPU to near side of to x2 PCIe and 92mm to near side of first x16 PCIe sockets .. and about 44mm center CPU to near side of RAM sockets.

Phanteks Enthoo Pro has more than enough CPU clearance for any air cooler I know of. Another advantage of Enthoo Pro is with about 2 minutes of work you can 'modify' the PSU filter and bottom vent filter into a single filter that slides out the front of case for cleaning. This means both front intake filter and bottom filter can be cleaned without moving the case .. assuming front is accessible. The Enthoo Pro comes with 2x cases fans. I suggest using 3 .. or at least moving both that come with the case to the front as intakes. The new no name / model number Phanteks case fans are high pressure fans and work very well without a exhaust fan. You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. 5th is a good place to start.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

You are so wrong to make a blanket generalization about aios. I have an Alphacool Eisbaer 360 which is an AIO with expansion capabilities. It is far better than 98% of the cpu air coolers on the market is quiet and well made with a copper radiator and a powerful but quiet pump. There also aio units from EK and Swiftech. They all outperform all but the biggest and noisiest air coolers on the market. The $130 and above air coolers may equal but not surpass these units. The most powerfull air coolers often are so massive that their height can be a problem or their fins interfere with memory slots. Know what you are talking about before you make your blanket denunciations.
AIO coolers are no quieter than any good 120mm or 140mm air cooler. In fact they are usually noisier as come with crappy high static pressure fans. Phanteks, Noctua air coolers etc... come with top of the line fans out of the box. "Powerful pump"? Even the high end units from Swiftech and EK come with pumps that nobody would ever use with a custom loops. Memory height clearance problems? The dual tower air coolers have adjustments for fan height for any ram kit you happen to have. $130 for an air cooler? Where did you pull that figure from. Never mind. Don't tell me.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

AIO coolers are no quieter than any good 120mm or 140mm air cooler. In fact they are usually noisier as come with crappy high static pressure fans. Phanteks, Noctua air coolers etc... come with top of the line fans out of the box. "Powerful pump"? Even the high end units from Swiftech and EK come with pumps that nobody would ever use with a custom loops. Memory height clearance problems? The dual tower air coolers have adjustments for fan height for any ram kit you happen to have. $130 for an air cooler? Where did you pull that figure from. Never mind. Don't tell me.
I can find a CPU air cooler(CM V8 GTS) that costs 89.99...the h110 costs 10 bucks more at 99.99. I chose this cooler not only to prove the point due to price but because it has clearance support for any RAM. I would not recommend either of these products for a budget system or at all...if you have cash loop it to fit the hardware you are using DIY style...if not buy a cheap air cooler and call it a day because CLC AIOs are not worth it for budget builds. They may be for mid range decent looking builds but that is a different story.

The perf difference between them doesn't matter in this case but I can safely say neither is worth it for OC potential alone. The point is that if one is willing to spend alot on a cooler it really comes down to preference...there are great air coolers that stand up against most CLC AIOs and the few that stand aside that have other issues namely noise and/or a crappy unreliable pump long term in contrast to a heat sink and some 120mm fan(s). Normally a CLC AIO is only justified for aesthetics on some form of mid range budget ceiling.
 
#22 ·
Here is Anandtech AIO / CLC and air cooler data charts at 12v and 7v fan speeds. Notice all CLCs are over 40dB noise level .. only 1 is below and it is 39.1dB. It is also worth noting that of the top air coolers available only a few are listed. Of them R1 Ultimate is known for having rather noisy fans while Dark Rock Pro 3 is know for low noise. PH-TC14PE and NH-D15 are known for being quieter. There are many other coolers not listed like Archon IB-E, Silver Arrow IB-E, Macho with fan Le Grand Macho, TRUE Spirit 140 Power & rev.A, etc. An in the AIO / CLC list open loop AIOs like Swiftech Hxxx X2, be quiet! Silent Loop, Fractal Design Kelvin are also missing.



ciarlatano used to review coolers. Here is data from his testing of AIO, CLC and air coolers. Notice the difference between room air temp and cooler intake air temp.
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In all of these we see the AIO & CLC are cooler at full speed but also significantly louder When AIO / CLC and air are all running at 40db or less the noise levels air coolers are every bit a good as the wannabe watercooling. Swiftech AIO being the excepting on both not being a wannabe water and cooler equal to (1c better) top tier air coolers.
 
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#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoth420 View Post

I can find a CPU air cooler(CM V8 GTS) that costs 89.99...the h110 costs 10 bucks more at 99.99. I chose this cooler not only to prove the point due to price but because it has clearance support for any RAM. I would not recommend either of these products for a budget system or at all...if you have cash loop it to fit the hardware you are using DIY style...if not buy a cheap air cooler and call it a day because CLC AIOs are not worth it for budget builds. They may be for mid range decent looking builds but that is a different story.

The perf difference between them doesn't matter in this case but I can safely say neither is worth it for OC potential alone. The point is that if one is willing to spend alot on a cooler it really comes down to preference...there are great air coolers that stand up against most CLC AIOs and the few that stand aside that have other issues namely noise and/or a crappy unreliable pump long term in contrast to a heat sink and some 120mm fan(s). Normally a CLC AIO is only justified for aesthetics on some form of mid range budget ceiling.
Knowledgeable users do not consider the CM V8 GTX a good cooler.
Just ot prove yoru point is invalid, normal ram is 33mm tall and will fit under almost all coolers and their fans .. and to invalidate your cooler cost comparison here are some examples of a of good air coolers and prices compared to H110.
NH-D14 for $70
TRUE Spirit 140 Power for $53
NH-U14S for $65
Scythe Fuma for $47
compared to
H110 at $100-130
All from same source .. amazon.com

That is a minimum of $30 and a maximum of $77 cost difference in cost, not.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Knowledgeable users do not consider the CM V8 GTX a good cooler.
Just ot prove yoru point is invalid, normal ram is 33mm tall and will fit under almost all coolers and their fans .. and to invalidate your cooler cost comparison here are some examples of a of good air coolers and prices compared to H110.
NH-D14 for $70
TRUE Spirit 140 Power for $53
NH-U14S for $65
Scythe Fuma for $47
compared to
H110 at $100-130
All from same source .. amazon.com

That is a minimum of $30 and a maximum of $77 cost difference in cost, not.
I never said they did and knowledgeable users also don't consider the h110 as one either....well if they do that is pretty sad.

I was merely proving that there are overpriced CPU coolers because it was stated as if they didn't exist. Yes in general a CPU cooler is cheaper it has less parts.
AIO's are dying with the EK Kits at least for anyone with a brain. 199.99 for a kit over about 100 and change for some junk CLC from Corsair. Swiftechs thing is ugly and I had 3 out of 3 units ship with a ton of algae inside....garbage(that I ordered directly through them and they wouldn't take any of them back even though I hadn't so much as removed anything from the packaging to assemble. Inspected the Reservoir section of the unit saw the nasty and put it back in the box)

I'll stick with EK...they have never done me wrong.

I don't use plebeian cooling other than to test new hardware to ensure it works....it always will go into a custom loop.
 
#25 ·
So uhh... Hate to interrupt this conversation but umm.. I was told I should hold off on the GPU for a couple weeks. Lets say I am impatient and really have my heart set on a new PC soon. Based off whats currently on the market, what should I do about the GPU? (Admittedly, I'd kinda like something that matches the rest of the hardware colorwise o.o) The only comment I got on the GPU was to hold off.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neighborbob View Post

So uhh... Hate to interrupt this conversation but umm.. I was told I should hold off on the GPU for a couple weeks. Lets say I am impatient and really have my heart set on a new PC soon. Based off whats currently on the market, what should I do about the GPU? (Admittedly, I'd kinda like something that matches the rest of the hardware colorwise o.o) The only comment I got on the GPU was to hold off.
At least wait post Computex to decide.
 
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