Quote:According to the Jacobs School of Engineering at UC San Diego, the code in question was masquerading as if it was related to engine noise.
Source.Now, you might be thinking that a single code model couldn't possibly compare all the variables in play between various test facilities, and that some cars should have shown a fault simply due to random chance. But VW was aware of that possibility and took steps to prevent it. Their defeat device had ten separate profiles to allow it to detect various permutations in test scenarios.
Not all the defeat devices were sophisticated. The Fiat 500X (not manufactured by VW) has a much simpler defeat device. The vehicle's emission control system runs for 26 minutes and 40 seconds after you first start the car, period. That's long enough to pass most emission tests, and it doesn't try to detect if the vehicle is being tested. But VW's work was extremely sophisticated, it evolved over time, and the company's claims that this was all instituted by a few rogue engineers are more farcical than ever.
I agree the companies that do this need punished, but fined and given to something like global warming??....Are you kidding me??!!...You do know any fines a company bears for doing this will inevitably end up making the cars more expensive, hence we pay that fine, not the company. ...They simply pass the cost onto the consumer....So it wouldnt prevent ALL of the companies from doing the exact thing, no skin off their nose.Originally Posted by PearlJammzz
It seems this may be a bigger problem altogether. Something that more than just VW is doing and to some extent I wouldn't be surprised if most all of them are doing SOMETHING. Seems testing may have to get a tad more sophisticated to combat these issues and massive, massive fines should be put out (with that money going to something useful in lowering greenhouse gases) to deter others from doing it.
Bums me out though. I want a small diesel engine in a small truck. I'd love a Ranger or Tacoma with a 4cylinder turbo diesel. This may make it to where we never see such a thing in the states. Hell, I'd even love the Subaru flat 4 diesel they have. That'd be amazing in my old Impreza or even just in a Forester or Outback. I'd probably choose that over the 3.6 H6 which is an excellent motor.
Two auto manufacturers are in legal crosshairs this week because of emissions from their diesel vehicles.
The US Department of Justice sued Fiat Chrysler of America (FCA) on Tuesday over 103,828 diesel Ram 1500s and Jeep Grand Cherokees. The DOJ claims that the cars contain "at least eight software-based features" to meddle with the cars' emissions control systems.
And today, two plaintiffs have asked a judge to let them proceed with a class-action lawsuit against General Motors. They claim that 705,000 of the American carmaker's diesel Silverado and Sierra HD trucks are giving off nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions in excess of what a consumer would expect and what the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) legally allows.
Which is why the people responsible...as in the ones who were directly at fault should be fined and potentially jailed for fraud-related charges.Originally Posted by soth7676
I agree the companies that do this need punished, but fined and given to something like global warming??....Are you kidding me??!!...You do know any fines a company bears for doing this will inevitably end up making the cars more expensive, hence we pay that fine, not the company. ...They simply pass the cost onto the consumer....So it wouldnt prevent ALL of the companies from doing the exact thing, no skin off their nose.
However a better system, would be to fine those companies that do such shenanigans, put that in a fund and at the end of that year take those funds and give it to those companies that comply with the regulations without having such software(or other means) to cheat for the company. NO company wishes to fund their competition, just makes it harder to compete....The fined company would either have to raise prices to make up for the fine and lose marketshare due to higher prices, OR the keep the price the same as their competition and take a REAL hit to their pocketbook....This would encourage companies to comply without using such cheats.
Actually you CAN punish a corporation for this had this happen at our OWN facility .... We make main engine fuel pumps for airplanes(commercial and military)...We had recently switched from one vendor to another for a housing and cover, we originally had a vendor in Minnesota doing the work for us, we switched from the Minnesota company to one in India... The moment we switched we noticed that the parts were not correct...the threads were off...some of the bolt threads were actually SUPERGLUED in rather than pressure fitted in...Originally Posted by DIYDeath
Which is why the people responsible...as in the ones who were directly at fault should be fined and potentially jailed for fraud-related charges.
You can't "punish" a corp because they accout for it in their bottom line, you can only shut them completely down via bankrupting them with unreasonable fines (which will be fought in court) or you go after the individual who made the decision that allowed the scenario to happen.
Your suggestion that the corp will simply pass those costs to the consumer and cause higher prices isn't without merit. But you're forgetting that this is a corp with a lot of competition. Them raising their prices due to their own policies would be terrible business and they WILL lose market share. Plus all the terrible PR they have gotten the past year definetely wont help. Overall it would be a very bad idea for them to raise their prices.Originally Posted by soth7676
I agree the companies that do this need punished, but fined and given to something like global warming??....Are you kidding me??!!...You do know any fines a company bears for doing this will inevitably end up making the cars more expensive, hence we pay that fine, not the company. ...They simply pass the cost onto the consumer....So it wouldnt prevent ALL of the companies from doing the exact thing, no skin off their nose.
However a better system, would be to fine those companies that do such shenanigans, put that in a fund and at the end of that year take those funds and give it to those companies that comply with the regulations without having such software(or other means) to cheat for the company. NO company wishes to fund their competition, just makes it harder to compete....The fined company would either have to raise prices to make up for the fine and lose marketshare due to higher prices, OR the keep the price the same as their competition and take a REAL hit to their pocketbook....This would encourage companies to comply without using such cheats.
That same people responsible for the GTX 970's 28 GB/s + XOR VRAM partition.
Lots of people cheat when pressured to meet goals that they believe are unachievable, especially when their job is on the line.Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12
Yeah really, rouge engineers is ridiculous. Usually understaffed and constantly dealing with BC problems, engineers love to take unpaid overtime to give cars extra power and worse emissions, because you know, it really matters to them. The automaker who depends on these "rouge" defeat devices, nah they had nothing to do with it. Why would they want to sell more cars?
Watergate was pretty big.
The more profitable a conspiracy is, the more likely it is to exist. (That includes the cost/benefit ratio in terms of how likely it is to be caught and what penalties will be levied.)
You seems to missed the point of my statement....if it is easier for a company to simply pay the fine then engineer their cars to meet the regulations it wouldnt prevent ALL the companies from doing it and merely pass those to the consumer....HOWEVER if the fines were set in a fund to reward those that DO properly follow those regs, it would encourage companies to actually meet the regs without cheats therefore not only NOT being fined, but getting rewarded for it.... Also discouraging those from attempting to pull the stunts some of theses companies are attempting... Using the fines to merely "fix" the damage done by this, we are talking goverment beauracrats here....If you tell me they are going to be truly careful and thoughtful with the use of those funds, well i got a bridge in New York I would love to sell you, pretty cheap no less...Originally Posted by silverwing
Your suggestion that the corp will simply pass those costs to the consumer and cause higher prices isn't without merit. But you're forgetting that this is a corp with a lot of competition. Them raising their prices due to their own policies would be terrible business and they WILL lose market share. Plus all the terrible PR they have gotten the past year definetely wont help. Overall it would be a very bad idea for them to raise their prices.
I'm all for the fines to go to offsetting the damage they have done, seems like the best route to go. Paying corps for simply following the law sounds a bit ridiculous.
You are a contemptible fool.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
They're not harmless. Countless studies have proven that diesel emissions are really bad for everyone. The less, the better.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
Go to any European city and take a few deep breaths.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
This has got to be sarcasm, no way your being serious........right?Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
The only failures that I've heard about are Nitrous Oxide, A.K.A. laughing gas, odorless and tasteless, used in medicinal applications. Harmless to people.Originally Posted by Imouto
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They're not harmless. Countless studies have proven that diesel emissions are really bad for everyone. The less, the better.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
It's been said before but VW thought they could develop a diesel engine that could pass the emissions tests without using AdBlue and they can't so they had to cheat. It is just money they didn't have to spend designing their engines all over.
Laughing gas is just one of the Nitrogen-oxygen compounds - there are more than just the N2O (hence the "x" present in diesel exhaust gasses). These are unstable compound that react with water in the atmosphere to form acidic compounds, leading to corrosion and acidic rain. I'd recommend you to read up on some sources about nitrogen oxydes and their consequences for the environment, but at this point I think you're either a troll or a denialist.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
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The only failures that I've heard about are Nitrous Oxide, A.K.A. laughing gas, odorless and tasteless, used in medicinal applications. Harmless to people.Originally Posted by Imouto
Quote:
They're not harmless. Countless studies have proven that diesel emissions are really bad for everyone. The less, the better.Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI
I still consider the "Rogue Engineers" heroes.
The amount of restrictions placed on the rest of the world simply due to "California" is ludicrous. VW was saving the world from insanity, the emissions that they failed on were harmless to people, it's sad that they got caught.
It's been said before but VW thought they could develop a diesel engine that could pass the emissions tests without using AdBlue and they can't so they had to cheat. It is just money they didn't have to spend designing their engines all over.
If everything else is up to spec, then VW was actually releasing less of the harmful emissions by taking a shortcut on one emissions standard that actually doesn't hurt anyone.
From what I've read Nitrous Oxide in the atmosphere does cause some brown haze, so they want it removed for aesthetic reasons, not for any practical benefits to quality of life.