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[OpenIV] Take Two vs. Modding

8K views 171 replies 50 participants last post by  PhotonFanatic 
#1 ·
Quote:
On June 5th, 2017, we had received an official Cease-and-Desist letter.
It clearly says, that with OpenIV we "allow third parties to defeat security features of its software and modify that software in violation Take-Two's rights".
Yes, this letter is illiterate both technically and grammatically (really, they don't even bothered with proof-reading the text).
Yes, we can go to court and yet again prove that modding is fair use and our actions are legal.
Yes, we could. But we decided not to.
Going to court will take at least few months of our time and huge amount of efforts, and, at best, we'll get absolutely nothing.
Spending time just to restore status quo is really unproductive, and all the money in the world can't compensate the loss of time.
So, we decided to agree with their claims and we're stopping distribution of OpenIV.
Source: http://openiv.com/?p=1324

I thought in the past that Rockstar had allowed us to mod singleplayer and it wouldn't punish us for that in any way, but apparently not anymore.
 
#3 ·
Eh, personally the only reason i played their games was for the modding. Ive no reason to support their products anymore with this news and how they went after role playing servers. Look at how alive the San Andres community still is because of mods.

Theyd never of sold the amount they did of GTAIV on PC had it not been for mods. Boris's ENB only must of shipped a large amount of copies. GTAV was avg at best and certainly technically inferior to GTAIV other than size.

 
#5 ·
Quote:
Yes, this letter is illiterate both technically and grammatically (really, they don't even bothered with proof-reading the text).
Yeah, TakeTwo lawyers aren't going to send them an illiterate letter telling them to stop.

This is most likely someone pretending to be Take Two to see how far they could get in order to make OpenIV shut down their operation just for giggles.

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Originally Posted by Ghoxt View Post

I bet this is pre-emptive action for the next version of GTA more than anything, where Rockstar charges $$$ for the same type of tool or online service.
I really doubt Rockstar has anything to do with this (if true). Rockstar have long been supportive of mods (as long as they don't affect online multiplayer) including the original release of FiveM, which TakeTwo shut down. TakeTwo told them to remove all traces of their support from the internet because it would affect Shark Card sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLomgbbq View Post

Eh, personally the only reason i played their games was for the modding. Ive no reason to support their products anymore with this news and how they went after role playing servers. Look at how alive the San Andres community still is because of mods.

Theyd never of sold the amount they did of GTAIV on PC had it not been for mods. Boris's ENB only must of shipped a large amount of copies. GTAV was avg at best and certainly technically inferior to GTAIV other than size.
See above. Rockstar originally supported the idea of FiveM. The only reason why FiveM was taken down, was because they were hosting servers. It's back now, but they aren't allowed to host servers. It's up to individual users to make their own.

As for "Theyd never of sold the amount they did of GTAIV on PC had it not been for mods." Not many people bought GTA IV or V just for modding. That's what Bethesda and indie games are for. Most people bought GTA IV and V for the story and high quality experience. The modding community is just a bonus.

"GTAV was avg at best and certainly technically inferior to GTAIV other than size."

Not in the slightest. The only things GTA IV did better than V was vehicle physics (subjective, a lot of people hated it), hand to hand combat (which was rarely used in game anyway in both IV and V) and a few irrelevant features like the ability to pick up and throw bricks.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

"GTAV was avg at best and certainly technically inferior to GTAIV other than size."

Not in the slightest. The only things GTA IV did better than V was vehicle physics (subjective, a lot of people hated it), hand to hand combat (which was rarely used in game anyway in both IV and V) and a few irrelevant features like the ability to pick up and throw bricks.
QFT. Some of us have to keep the hyperbolic cool-to-hate crowd in check. GTA V was one of the most technically impressive games I've played.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Yeah, TakeTwo lawyers aren't going to send them an illiterate letter telling them to stop.

This is most likely someone pretending to be Take Two to see how far they could get in order to make OpenIV shut down their operation just for giggles.
I really doubt Rockstar has anything to do with this (if true). Rockstar have long been supportive of mods (as long as they don't affect online multiplayer) including the original release of FiveM, which TakeTwo shut down. TakeTwo told them to remove all traces of their support from the internet because it would affect Shark Card sales.

See above. Rockstar originally supported the idea of FiveM. The only reason why FiveM was taken down, was because they were hosting servers. It's back now, but they aren't allowed to host servers. It's up to individual users to make their own.

As for "Theyd never of sold the amount they did of GTAIV on PC had it not been for mods." Not many people bought GTA IV or V just for modding. That's what Bethesda and indie games are for. Most people bought GTA IV and V for the story and high quality experience. The modding community is just a bonus.

"GTAV was avg at best and certainly technically inferior to GTAIV other than size."

Not in the slightest. The only things GTA IV did better than V was vehicle physics (subjective, a lot of people hated it), hand to hand combat (which was rarely used in game anyway in both IV and V) and a few irrelevant features like the ability to pick up and throw bricks.
The video i posted clearly shows otherwise. The only thing GTAV does better than IV is visuals, thats it. Some of us require more stimulation than fog, lens flares and sun shafts. People give Crysis1 flack for being a tech demo, GTAV is no different.

"irrelevant features like the ability to pick up and throw bricks."

Yes, because in gaming, theres nothing more irrelevant than interactivity.
rolleyes.gif
No wonder gamers are so easily impressed these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

QFT. Some of us have to keep the hyperbolic cool-to-hate crowd in check. GTA V was one of the most technically impressive games I've played.
Calling peoples dislike for GTAV, hyperbole, is nothing but hyperbolic. Strong argument. Well done.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLomgbbq View Post

The video i posted clearly shows otherwise. The only thing GTAV does better than IV is visuals, thats it. Some of us require more stimulation than fog, lens flares and sun shafts. People give Crysis1 flack for being a tech demo, GTAV is no different.
GTA IV doesn't have vehicle customization, weapon customization, the only character customization was a few items of clothing, property ownership, very few "strangers" missions, no planes, a dead online multiplayer, doesn't multiple characters (unless you want to include the DLC, then you have to quit and relaunch the game every time you want to switch and to be honest, I consider them separate games), no rampages, far less mini-games, no underwater environment at all, etc.

GTA V has far more replayability than IV. IV has 2 endings with very few choices on how to get to them. V has 3 endings and just about every mission can be played differently. When you're done with the story in IV, there's almost nothing left to do and you have $1M of money that you can't spend because there's nothing to buy. In GTA V, the story just makes up for around 70% completion whereas completing the story in IV makes up for around 90% completion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GTA IV is terrible. I loved it and would still play it today if it worked properly on Windows 10, but GTA V is hardly a step back overall. Yes, it does have a few features that are missing and I do prefer the vehicle handling of IV to V but overall it's a huge step forward in terms gameplay, graphics and optimization. It's a bit far fetched to say GTA V is just a tech demo.

When CrowbCat made that video, he was just jumping on the "Let's hate on GTA V because of Shark Cards" bandwagon, and it worked. Just over 9 millions views/$9000 in ad revenue (at $1 per 1000 views).
 
#9 ·
Also, IV was an un-optimized piece of crap on PC
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFL View Post

Also, IV was an un-optimized piece of crap on PC
This.

Sure there are certain mechanics in IV that are superior to V (for some) such as vehicle handling. But overall I think it's a stretch to say V is just a tech demo. Frankly, there's just flat out more things to do and more variety in V.

As for the modding, this is sad to hear.
 
#11 ·
This one worked for me. Not sure how long, though. After installation, you'll be prompted with the window telling you they shut down, but if you click uninstall later, it'll let you through.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

GTA IV doesn't have vehicle customization, weapon customization, the only character customization was a few items of clothing, property ownership, very few "strangers" missions, no planes, a dead online multiplayer, doesn't multiple characters (unless you want to include the DLC, then you have to quit and relaunch the game every time you want to switch and to be honest, I consider them separate games), no rampages, far less mini-games, no underwater environment at all, etc.

GTA V has far more replayability than IV. IV has 2 endings with very few choices on how to get to them. V has 3 endings and just about every mission can be played differently. When you're done with the story in IV, there's almost nothing left to do and you have $1M of money that you can't spend because there's nothing to buy. In GTA V, the story just makes up for around 70% completion whereas completing the story in IV makes up for around 90% completion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GTA IV is terrible. I loved it and would still play it today if it worked properly on Windows 10, but GTA V is hardly a step back overall. Yes, it does have a few features that are missing and I do prefer the vehicle handling of IV to V but overall it's a huge step forward in terms gameplay, graphics and optimization. It's a bit far fetched to say GTA V is just a tech demo.

When CrowbCat made that video, he was just jumping on the "Let's hate on GTA V because of Shark Cards" bandwagon, and it worked. Just over 9 millions views/$9000 in ad revenue (at $1 per 1000 views).
I was going to reply to him... but you already sayd pretty much anything there is to say, lol
 
#16 ·
Quote:
It was only a matter of time until the Liberty City total conversion for GTA V was shut down, especially after what happened with OpenIV. After all, the team behind this total conversion mod was the same one responsible for OpenIV. As such, we are sad to inform you that the Liberty City mod has been cancelled.

For what it's worth, Rockstar Games claimed that it will release an official statement about this whole thing soon, so stay tuned for more.

GooD-NTS, lead developer of the OpenIV mod, shared some additional details about what happened:
  • At May 19th, 2017, I received an email from the legal counsel for Take Two Interactive in the USA. In this email they has requested to stop immediately any further work and/or distribution of OpenIV and "Liberty City in GTAV" projects.
  • In belief, that we did not violate any laws, I asked them to provide more detailed information about their request. They agreed to provide details by email.
  • On June 5th, 2017, after two weeks of silence, I got C&D letter from lawyers company (legal representative of Take Two in Russia), both in electronic and paper form, to my employer address. This C&D accuses me in Russian laws violations.
  • After many heavy thoughts, we had decided to agree with their claims. We did not make it easily; it is very hard decision for us.
PC gamers appear to be really frustrated by this whole thing and have decided to flood GTA V's Steam store page with negative reviews.

As said, Rockstar will soon issue an official statement, so stay tuned for more!
[Source]

Steam page: Mostly Negative : http://store.steampowered.com/app/271590/Grand_Theft_Auto_V/
 
#18 ·
The developers stopped making that mod because it required OpenIV to be installed, which TakeTwo shut down. It has nothing to do with Rockstar, read the sources you're posting.

Quote:
It was only a matter of time until the Liberty City total conversion for GTA V was shut down, especially after what happened with OpenIV. After all, the team behind this total conversion mod was the same one responsible for OpenIV. As such, we are sad to inform you that the Liberty City mod has been cancelled.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
I'll repeat here what I said in that thread. The developers stopped making that mod because it required OpenIV to be installed, which TakeTwo shut down. It has nothing to do with Rockstar, read the sources you're posting.

Quote:
It was only a matter of time until the Liberty City total conversion for GTA V was shut down, especially after what happened with OpenIV. After all, the team behind this total conversion mod was the same one responsible for OpenIV. As such, we are sad to inform you that the Liberty City mod has been cancelled.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
Their 'support' for modding is nothing but lip service to keep revenue coming in and get PC gamers to double dip. At least Bethesda, as trash as they are, are supporting modding for the console versions. Thats more support for modding than anything Rockstar has ever done.

If Rockstar cared so much about modding like they claim, then they would have added support and modding tools.

So yes, this does fall on Rockstar just as much.

Read between the lines.

I suppose this is going to be another case of addicted gamers suffering from Stockholm syndrome that they'll do everything they can to not have ther fav devs take responsibility for their actions or lack of.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLomgbbq View Post

Their 'support' for modding is nothing but lip service to keep keep revenue coming it and get PC gamers to double dip. At least Bethesda, as trash as they are, are supporting modding for the console versions. Thats more support for modding than anything Rockstar has ever done.

If Rockstar cared so much about modding like they claim, then they would have added support and modding tools.

So yes, this does fall on Rockstar just as much.
Believe it or not, but the publisher has say in whether or not mods are allowed and it's the publishers lawyers that have shut OpenIV down as well as the Liberty City Conversion, not Rockstar. The world isn't as simple as you think it is. Rockstar has absolutely nothing to do with this other than them making the game. It's the publishers who decide whether or not official modding tools are released to the public. Bethesda only officially allows mods because they're both developer and publisher of their games.

In the history of gaming, it's always been the greedy publishers at fault for things like this happening. It's never been the fault of the developers.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Believe it or not, but the publisher has say in whether or not mods are allowed and it's the publishers lawyers that have shut OpenIV down as well as the Liberty City Conversion, not Rockstar. The world isn't as simple as you think it is. Rockstar has absolutely nothing to do with this other than them making the game.

In the history of gaming, it's always been the greedy publishers at fault for things like this happening. It's never been the fault of the developers.
Believe it or not, Rockstar can survive without Take Two, its just more convenient to not have to worry about publishing deals etc while making a game.

Its a marriage of convenience. not necessity and we know this by the current blind defending of Rockstar, that it dosnt matter what they do or dont do, gamers will stick by them even while Rockstar says one thing, then does another.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Believe it or not, but the publisher has say in whether or not mods are allowed and it's the publishers lawyers that have shut OpenIV down as well as the Liberty City Conversion, not Rockstar. The world isn't as simple as you think it is. Rockstar has absolutely nothing to do with this other than them making the game. It's the publishers who decide whether or not official modding tools are released to the public. Bethesda only officially allows mods because they're both developer and publisher of their games.

In the history of gaming, it's always been the greedy publishers at fault for things like this happening. It's never been the fault of the developers.
I don't see how they can say whether mods are allowed or not. I mean, i own a physical copy of the game, i am allowed to do whatever i want with it.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLomgbbq View Post

Believe it or not, Rockstar can survive without Take Two, its just more convenient to not have to worry about publishing deals etc while making a game.

Its a marriage of convenience.
I highly down TakeTwo is just going to let the largest revenue generator they have leave without a fight. I highly doubt Rockstar wants TakeTwo to be the publisher, but they're stuck with them. They'd have to buy themselves out of TakeTwo, which I'm guessing would cost them $5 billion at the minimum to keep TakeTwos investors happy which would also cripple Rockstar.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

I don't see how they can say whether mods are allowed or not. I mean, i own a physical copy of the game, i am allowed to do whatever i want with it.
It's complicated. The publisher sees it as you owning a licence to the software whether it's a digital copy or a physical copy. They still see the the game as their property and you aren't allowed to do what you want with it, even though it won't affect other people, unless you're one of those people who use mods in online multiplayer to grief other players.

I agree completely with you, and so does Rockstar. Rockstar used to publish articles, videos and screenshots of GTA mods almost daily before TakeTwo told them to stop. If it's in single player, I don't see why they would care (usually), but as GTA V has a lot of Online only content (that's grossly overpriced) that can't be accessed in single player without mods, this is why I think TakeTwo want to shut down modding in their game. Most people wouldn't want to grind away for hour and hours to get enough money to buy the new content, so they'd give up and buy Shark Cards, which in themselves are grossly overpriced (you're looking at spending $80 of real money to buy a virtual yacht.)
 
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