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[TT] 4K gaming audience is "too limited" for Nintendo - Page 7

post #61 of 104
I don't mind that Nintendo doesn't do 4k, but many of their followers' toxic attitude towards capable hardware and the relentless defense on 720p, even on a mobile console, is just mind boggling. It's like they do not realise that Nintendo is trying to make as much profit as possible by saving on hardware, which actively cuts from the quality of games and their developers.

Having better hardware is stricly a positive thing for developers as it allows them to use higher quality assets should they want to and spend less time on optimisation if they don't. It doesn't stop them from making Mario or Zelda, but it does actively make them substantially worse than they could be. The dumb argument about Nintendo not competing with Sony and Microsoft only kills 90% of the interest in the platform both from developers and gamers and gets you 2010 PC IQ.
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

When the graphics are so bad you miss quests/items/etc, then we have a problem. Games back in the day were designed in a way you could see things despite the bad and blurry graphics (Dark object next to light wall, blinking red light next to interactive items, etc). Things in modern games tend to blur together at low resolutions.

BoTW does this at 720p on a 65" TV. You can't see critters before they are already running half the time, and you flat out miss certain NPCs that are 10 feet away because they blur right into the environment. I actually missed a pretty important optional area on my WiiU because I didn't see a blurry walkway in the distance. I saw it immediately while playing at 8K on cemu, from a much greater distance. There are many complaints about BoTW being too blurry. It's less of an issue on the Switch though because it runs at 900p when you broadcast to a TV.

Graphics don't bother me as long as it's not so aliased that you can't see things. Old PC games don't suffer from this problem unless they lack resolution setting. I can also play Wind Waker HD on my WiiU and think it looks amazing, despite being a very old game. That's because it's running at 1080p with AA. BoTW is running at 720p with no AA which makes it unbearably aliased on a 65" TV.

I'll even take it one step further. I find Ocarina of Time's graphics (Released 1998) when playing on an emulator at 4K less annoying than BoTW's graphics at 720p on the WiiU. 720p is not an acceptable resolution for gaming on modern sized 55-65" TVs. It can be fine for film content (where the camera only can focus on one thing, usually close up). However, for games where it needs to focus on everything - especially stuff in the distance - you need at least 1080p or a much smaller TV.

Personally, I have never ran into an issue where I miss stuff due to "blurriness" when running games at 720p on the occasions where I game on console. Maybe I am just lucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

I don't mind that Nintendo doesn't do 4k, but many of their followers' toxic attitude towards capable hardware and the relentless defense on 720p, even on a mobile console, is just mind boggling. It's like they do not realise that Nintendo is trying to make as much profit as possible by saving on hardware, which actively cuts from the quality of games and their developers.

Having better hardware is stricly a positive thing for developers as it allows them to use higher quality assets should they want to and spend less time on optimisation if they don't. It doesn't stop them from making Mario or Zelda, but it does actively make them substantially worse than they could be. The dumb argument about Nintendo not competing with Sony and Microsoft only kills 90% of the interest in the platform both from developers and gamers and gets you 2010 PC IQ.

What I have always been against and seen others against is when devs sacrifice gameplay / story in their pursuit of graphics or use graphics as a crutch. Limited hardware capability means devs are forced to come up with better stuff to entice gamers. Between devs pushing the graphical or physics engines vs them investing that money into a better writing staff or better UI/controls for gameplay, I will go for the latter every day any day. Graphics and pushing the hardware envelope should always, ALWAYS be pretty low on the priority list when developing games.
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post #63 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Hell I got a 55" alone in my bedroom, simply for the few times I feel like watching TV from bed. lol

100" Projection Screen in basement, and another 55" in Living room.

Large TV's are the Norm. Hell the 42" in my Office looks small to me.


720p has never looked bad to me on a 55" TV, or even a 100" projection screen. So I have no Idea what he was talking about the switch looking bad when it is not 720p.

You must be single biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif joking. All around me going nuts on those 65" or 70" screens and im hanging around wiht a 32" and it fits me. ( it is also a 1920p if i am correct)
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

720p looks fine on a 6.2" screen. I don't think anyone is saying the switch should be doing 4K.

They should have released a non-portable console, and kept the switch a portable only device. The fact the switch can broadcast to a TV is cool, but it lacks power and resolution because it's portable. We should have got another non-portable console capable of running BoTW at 1440p or 4K before another portable device. People who don't have interest in portable gaming devices shouldn't have to run BoTW at 900p on their 65" TVs with less than ideal FPS (20 in some areas!) because Nintendo can't give us a proper console.

I was not talking about 720p on the the small screen.

Personally, I could care less if Nintendo every makes a new standard home console. Their strong suite of late been their mobile.
     
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post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

How I look at it:
720p is awful. 900p is bad. 1080p is acceptable. 1440p is good. 4K is great.

If someone wants to think that 720 vs 900 vs 1080 isn't a big difference on a 55-65" TV, I can assure you each step is a huge difference for gaming. No console game released today should be rendered below 1080p, that was somewhat acceptable when we had 32-46" TVs but not now. It actually starts affecting gameplay because everything starts getting so blurry and hard to make out on larger TVs.

Its all about what you are comparing it too. Someone who is used to a 1080p or 720p TV isn't going to care that 4K exists because quite frankly even 720p still looks good on a smaller TV. I don't think 4k is as big of a jump as lets say SD or ED to HD was.

You are right 720p is bottom of the barrel now and 1080p is the defacto. But 1080p TVs are still what most people have.
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post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Movies in 4K does not equal games at 4K. It is very hard to tell 4K content from 1080p content but games its huge difference.

Yeah, this just isn't true sorry (in my opinion). 4k is beautiful, but it's just not worth the price... Especially those OLED screens.... mhm... they're nice and let me tell you I'd have a few if I had obscene amounts of cash chilling.
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post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxborough View Post

I know I don't have a 65" TV, but I have a Samsung UE55KS8000(KS7000 in UK). I haven't experienced anything in Zelda on this TV that I can't see. Are you sure your TV settings are correct?

Edit: Just to let you know, my TV has fantastic deinterlacing and scales lower resolution content to match the 4k panel. Motion handling is brilliant too, zero judder and no blur. No matter what I throw at this TV, it makes it look great. I'd check out what your TV can do regarding up-scaling and make sure all the settings are correct. It should not be blurry.

It is possible the LG's E6 OLED does a poor job with 720p>4K, but I don't notice an issue with 720p film content. My friend has a 65" TV and had the same problem with BoTW (he quit playing because of it). On the same Wii, Wind Waker HD (runs at 1080p) looks fantastic despite being an older game.

55" and 65" is a way bigger difference than most people realize. I upgraded about 2 years ago and still can't get over how small my old 55" looks in comparison. If you are running the Switch version, that'd run at 900p instead of the WiiU's 720p, so I'd imagine it'd be less of a problem too. It may just not be as big of an issue on a 55".

Try hunting crickets or butterflies. I had to find merchants that were selling them because they were just impossible to see in time. Playing again on 8K, I had no issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Personally, I have never ran into an issue where I miss stuff due to "blurriness" when running games at 720p on the occasions where I game on console. Maybe I am just lucky.

BoTW has a color palette that tends to blend together, and also has lots of foliage and very small objects to interact with (critters that run away from you). Combine that with a big screen and 720p, and it's not a very enjoyable experience in my opinion.

If you go over to the BoTW reddit, lots of people just end up buying certain critters because catching them is near impossible because they are so hard to see. By the time you see them, they've already ran and disappeared. Especially Smothering Butterflies, which are near impossible to see on the WiiU. All these critters are easily visible when playing on Cemu @ 8K.
Edited by Murlocke - 6/29/17 at 6:20am
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post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

It is possible the LG's E6 OLED does a poor job with 720p>4K, but I don't notice an issue with 720p film content. My friend has a 65" TV and had the same problem with BoTW (he quit playing because of it). On the same Wii, Wind Waker HD (runs at 1080p) looks fantastic despite being an older game.

55" and 65" is a way bigger difference than most people realize. I upgraded about 2 years ago and still can't get over how small my old 55" looks in comparison. If you are running the Switch version, that'd run at 900p instead of the WiiU's 720p, so I'd imagine it'd be less of a problem too. It may just not be as big of an issue on a 55".

Try hunting crickets or butterflies. I had to find merchants that were selling them because they were just impossible to see in time. Playing again on 8K, I had no issues.
BoTW has a color palette that tends to blend together, and also has lots of foliage and very small objects to interact with (critters that run away from you). Combine that with a big screen and 720p, and it's not a very enjoyable experience in my opinion.

If you go over to the BoTW reddit, lots of people just end up buying certain critters because catching them is near impossible because they are so hard to see. By the time you see them, they've already ran and disappeared. Especially Smothering Butterflies, which are near impossible to see on the WiiU. All these critters are easily visible when playing on Cemu @ 8K.

You do not see them. You keep pressing the catch button and put own stealth armor.
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post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

It is possible the LG's E6 OLED does a poor job with 720p>4K, but I don't notice an issue with 720p film content. My friend has a 65" TV and had the same problem with BoTW (he quit playing because of it). On the same Wii, Wind Waker HD (runs at 1080p) looks fantastic despite being an older game.

55" and 65" is a way bigger difference than most people realize. I upgraded about 2 years ago and still can't get over how small my old 55" looks in comparison. If you are running the Switch version, that'd run at 900p instead of the WiiU's 720p, so I'd imagine it'd be less of a problem too. It may just not be as big of an issue on a 55".

Try hunting crickets or butterflies. I had to find merchants that were selling them because they were just impossible to see in time. Playing again on 8K, I had no issues.
BoTW has a color palette that tends to blend together, and also has lots of foliage and very small objects to interact with (critters that run away from you). Combine that with a big screen and 720p, and it's not a very enjoyable experience in my opinion.

If you go over to the BoTW reddit, lots of people just end up buying certain critters because catching them is near impossible because they are so hard to see. By the time you see them, they've already ran and disappeared. Especially Smothering Butterflies, which are near impossible to see on the WiiU. All these critters are easily visible when playing on Cemu @ 8K.

As
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

It is possible the LG's E6 OLED does a poor job with 720p>4K, but I don't notice an issue with 720p film content. My friend has a 65" TV and had the same problem with BoTW (he quit playing because of it). On the same Wii, Wind Waker HD (runs at 1080p) looks fantastic despite being an older game.

55" and 65" is a way bigger difference than most people realize. I upgraded about 2 years ago and still can't get over how small my old 55" looks in comparison. If you are running the Switch version, that'd run at 900p instead of the WiiU's 720p, so I'd imagine it'd be less of a problem too. It may just not be as big of an issue on a 55".

Try hunting crickets or butterflies. I had to find merchants that were selling them because they were just impossible to see in time. Playing again on 8K, I had no issues.
BoTW has a color palette that tends to blend together, and also has lots of foliage and very small objects to interact with (critters that run away from you). Combine that with a big screen and 720p, and it's not a very enjoyable experience in my opinion.

If you go over to the BoTW reddit, lots of people just end up buying certain critters because catching them is near impossible because they are so hard to see. By the time you see them, they've already ran and disappeared. Especially Smothering Butterflies, which are near impossible to see on the WiiU. All these critters are easily visible when playing on Cemu @ 8K.

I am indeed aware the Switch runs at 900p. But I also have a PS3, a fair few of the games on PS3 are 720p, and they still look sharp. I may try and limit the Switches output to the TV to 720p and see if that makes a difference.

I got a tape measure out in work to remind myself of the difference between 55" and 65" as I have seen them side-by-side in Richer Sounds 65" was too big for me, and the 49" was too small... It is a pretty noticeable difference between 49 and 55.... and even larger between 55 and 65 so I'd be inclined to agree with you. I'd imagine the colour palette would be a considerable issue if displayed on a 65" screen... I reckon that could be somewhat alleviated by the distance away from the TV and a tweak of the sharpness, colour and contrast settings. Or get a Switch instead. lol
    
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post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post


I own a WiiU, and put over 100 hours into BoTW on it. It played like garbage, and looked like garbage. I felt like I went back in time 20 years. I used my WiiU to rip the disk to my PC, and launched it with Cemu. Used the 8K graphic pack, and it generally maintains a solid 30FPS even in places where the console would drop to 20 at 720p.

Yup. I don't know how anyone can tolerate playing at 900p let alone 720p in that game. 4k is night and day superior
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [TT] 4K gaming audience is "too limited" for Nintendo