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Changes coming to Silicon Lottery - Page 4

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticial View Post

You do realize that the AVX offsets is Intel's specification right? It's not something that SL made up to "cheat".

Taking the 7900X as an example, Intel's stock settings are:
  • 4.0 GHz non-AVX all cores
  • 3.6 GHz AVX all cores
  • 3.3 GHz AVX512 all cores

Yes I understand that it is not something that SL just made up.

I wasn't aware that the new x line automatically uses this function but I suppose it makes more sense for that specific market/target workload.

I guess my main focus would be on the "gaming/performance" cpus. 7600k and 7700k. These CPUs never used to be tested using an AVX offset and now it appears to be standard practice.

In any case it's fine we don't have to agree. It would appear we're focused on very different workloads anyways. For me personally, I'm going to just roll the dice in the future as I see less value now that the AVX offsets are standard.
post #32 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunagwa View Post

Yes I understand that it is not something that SL just made up.

I wasn't aware that the new x line automatically uses this function but I suppose it makes more sense for that specific market/target workload.

I guess my main focus would be on the "gaming/performance" cpus. 7600k and 7700k. These CPUs never used to be tested using an AVX offset and now it appears to be standard practice.

In any case it's fine we don't have to agree. It would appear we're focused on very different workloads anyways. For me personally, I'm going to just roll the dice in the future as I see less value now that the AVX offsets are standard.

You never have to use the settings we provide. Nothing has really changed, the higher bin you grab the higher quality silicon you get. We tested with just Realbench before, which has some AVX in it. A CPU tested only with Realbench would instantly fail a more difficult AVX load like Prime95. A lot of you are okay with that, and that's perfectly fine, you don't need to run AVX offsets.

In order to provide a better experience in general though, we are providing settings that should be stable in all types of workloads. A customer should not expect the system to ever crash with the new settings during general use, even if more AVX heavy applications start coming out.

If you're looking for a more direct comparison to Realbench as before, I would say you lose about 50MHz jumping from Non-AVX stability to Realbench stability on mainstream chips. That is to say, you can imagine we're showing clocks about 50MHz higher than before.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silicon Lottery View Post

You never have to use the settings we provide. Nothing has really changed, the higher bin you grab the higher quality silicon you get. We tested with just Realbench before, which has some AVX in it. A CPU tested only with Realbench would instantly fail a more difficult AVX load like Prime95. A lot of you are okay with that, and that's perfectly fine, you don't need to run AVX offsets.

In order to provide a better experience in general though, we are providing settings that should be stable in all types of workloads. A customer should not expect the system to ever crash with the new settings during general use, even if more AVX heavy applications start coming out.

If you're looking for a more direct comparison to Realbench as before, I would say you lose about 50MHz jumping from Non-AVX stability to Realbench stability on mainstream chips. That is to say, you can imagine we're showing clocks about 50MHz higher than before.

Yea you make a couple good points but I think I may be just looking at this the wrong way.

The performance benefits of using AVX code should far outweigh the clockspeeds were talking about here anyways. So looking at it that way the offset setting makes a lot more sense. I think I'm starting to grasp why Intel needed it now.

I'm going to play around with it a bit more when I get a chance. I don't think it's as evil as I originally thought.

Still curious about the percentage stat and why it was removed. No biggie though. I'm a speed whore like most people here so when the time comes I'll probably pony up like the rest.
post #34 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunagwa View Post

Yea you make a couple good points but I think I may be just looking at this the wrong way.

The performance benefits of using AVX code should far outweigh the clockspeeds were talking about here anyways. So looking at it that way the offset setting makes a lot more sense. I think I'm starting to grasp why Intel needed it now.

I'm going to play around with it a bit more when I get a chance. I don't think it's as evil as I originally thought.

Still curious about the percentage stat and why it was removed. No biggie though. I'm a speed whore like most people here so when the time comes I'll probably pony up like the rest.

The statistics will come back eventually. We prefer to have a large sample size before posting statistics (at least 50-100) and we've only just recently started this new testing methodology.
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silicon Lottery View Post

We are in the process of switching over to conductonaut, but again, there is very little difference between the two.

When you say switching over to conductonaut. that means going away from the liquid metal? If i am to buy a 10c cpu i very much want every deg C that i can get. If your a overclocker already know its not all about the temps its about moving the heat as quickly as possible.

If you do decided to stop using Liquid metal TIM would it be possible to have you ship a delid chip that has not been placed back together(noTIM)? TBH i would prefer this method regardless. I do understand why you would like to relid and seal them backup its just not for me smile.gif

Also a side note do you test IMC at all? I personally would like to buy a cpu that has a strong imc as well as decent cpu speed. It is very possible that with a good cpu speed a good imc is sure to follow but i am just wondering.
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post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula383 View Post

When you say switching over to conductonaut. that means going away from the liquid metal? If i am to buy a 10c cpu i very much want every deg C that i can get. If your a overclocker already know its not all about the temps its about moving the heat as quickly as possible.

If you do decided to stop using Liquid metal TIM would it be possible to have you ship a delid chip that has not been placed back together(noTIM)? TBH i would prefer this method regardless. I do understand why you would like to relid and seal them backup its just not for me smile.gif

Also a side note do you test IMC at all? I personally would like to buy a cpu that has a strong imc as well as decent cpu speed. It is very possible that with a good cpu speed a good imc is sure to follow but i am just wondering.

Conductonaut is a liquid metal that has an even higher thermal conductivity rating than CLU. It performs just a little bit better than CLU, but they are both pretty similar.

If you want us to do additional binning for IMC quality, it's something we can do for an additional charge. Contact us via email what you're looking for to get a quote.
post #37 of 51
Pardon my ignorance, but is there any reason for concern or that big of a performance deviation with the IMC on the new i7-X?
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post #38 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafmetal View Post

Pardon my ignorance, but is there any reason for concern or that big of a performance deviation with the IMC on the new i7-X?

Not unless you're aiming for 4133+, most chips have fantastic memory controllers.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silicon Lottery View Post

Not unless you're aiming for 4133+, most chips have fantastic memory controllers.

Will definitely be looking for 4000 at a minimum, with a 7820X to take advantage of the forthcoming Apex capabilities, but nothing too crazy, it'll be my daily driver. Appreciate the reply as always, your CS is always top notch! thumb.gif
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post #40 of 51
Does your CPUs ship from North America? Really want to buy one. But besides the shipping cost, I'm really afraid that the CPU will stop on the "customs authorities" on Portugal. And since it's a 400$ product I'm really afraid of having to pay like 100$ or more in taxes
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