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post #111 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolluxCastor View Post

Sandy is barely faster at the same clocks as 45NM Nehalem, given that in games the cache makes a larger difference on 4 core / 8 thread Westmere chips (12MB vs 8MB on i7) if gaming is what you do, then it's not an apples to apples comparison, and Sandy in fact may not be worth the while with a locked chip since the CPU is limited to whatever it comes as, which for a 2600 is 3.3ghz?

Where Sandy takes the cake though is AVX... Nehalem / Westmere get smashed to Kingdom come if that comes into play.

The big gains from Sandy were mostly due to AVX and the big clock speed differences to a stock Nehalem.

No one on Sandy Bridge who is a PC enthusiast with spare cash to upgrade contemplating whether he should or not will be on a locked processor.
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post #112 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post

The problem with that, is that all server and business chips are all locked. So no buying xeons and doing just as well. So while that 2600 is sweet, it's certainly no 2600k. Although it wouldn't be overclockable in that mobo anyway.

Wrong. You can get limited OCing on any Xeon and I believe any of the 1 series are actually unlockable/unlocked if they're in an X79 motherboard that can run them. There's one guy with a 4Ghz Haswell-E 18c using a combination of bclk and turbo overclocking on xs I believe.

And besides, even the Extreme Edition i7s on Socket 2011-3 are relatively cheap these days. You can get a CPU + Motherboard + 16GB RAM for around AU$700 on eBay, probably cheaper elsewhere which is way cheaper than a 1700 or 8700k system to offer similar speeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolluxCastor View Post

Sandy is barely faster at the same clocks as 45NM Nehalem, given that in games the cache makes a larger difference on 4 core / 8 thread Westmere chips (12MB vs 8MB on i7) if gaming is what you do, then it's not an apples to apples comparison, and Sandy in fact may not be worth the while with a locked chip since the CPU is limited to whatever it comes as, which for a 2600 is 3.3ghz?

Where Sandy takes the cake though is AVX... Nehalem / Westmere get smashed to Kingdom come if that comes into play.

The big gains from Sandy were mostly due to AVX and the big clock speed differences to a stock Nehalem.

There was some decent IPC gain but the biggest gain definitely comes from the higher clocks, even the good D0 1366 chips top out at 4.4Ghz while SB-E/IB-E can easily hit 4.6-4.8 with good air or water. Combine that with PCIe 3.0 and the slightly newer chipset and I really think it's a better budget option than X58 for a gaming rig given the similar prices. I was recently looking into this when my i5 3570k died but ended up getting an i7 3770k instead because it was far cheaper than all of the other options and I want to see what happens with the rumours of Intel bumping core counts again and Ryzen 2.

It's also 3.4Ghz for all cores and 3.8Ghz Turbo but even on an OEM motherboard a stock i7 2600 runs perfectly fine. People forget that CPUs really only start to become a bottleneck when you're talking about high FPS/high resolution scenarios. if you simply want a PC that can render any game at a fluid FPS at 1080p then any modern CPU above the AU$200 mark will go perfectly fine. I remember when even running 30fps at 1080p was considered amazing for a GPU and now people are talking about 240fps at 4k.
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post #113 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbarrett96 View Post

Can someone explain why the 980/990x are still ridiculously expensive even used and the Xeons can be had for a fraction of the price? Is it the cache?

Because flagships are flagships. I'm sure more Xeons were sold as packages with servers like R series Dells, or HP Proliant G6's or what have you. Servers get upgraded relatively quick and in batches, therefore higher supply and less demand... Lets not give away our xeon secret.

My CPU is still kicking it, using it as my workstation + gaming rig + studio. lol.
post #114 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolluxCastor View Post

Sandy is barely faster at the same clocks as 45NM Nehalem, given that in games the cache makes a larger difference on 4 core / 8 thread Westmere chips (12MB vs 8MB on i7) if gaming is what you do, then it's not an apples to apples comparison, and Sandy in fact may not be worth the while with a locked chip since the CPU is limited to whatever it comes as, which for a 2600 is 3.3ghz?

Where Sandy takes the cake though is AVX... Nehalem / Westmere get smashed to Kingdom come if that comes into play.

The big gains from Sandy were mostly due to AVX and the big clock speed differences to a stock Nehalem.

Nehalem to Sandy was probably the largest architectural IPC increase from Intel since the introduction of Core 2 and it mostly wasn't due to AVX. The core was widened and the uncore was made much faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

There was some decent IPC gain but the biggest gain definitely comes from the higher clocks, even the good D0 1366 chips top out at 4.4Ghz while SB-E/IB-E can easily hit 4.6-4.8 with good air or water.

I was never able to get any SB-E or IB-E parts stable at such speeds.

In my experience SB-E had a ~200MHz advantage over good D0 Bloomfields and earlier Westmere hex cores, but almost no advantage over late Westmere parts (i7-990X and later Xeon X56xx parts).
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post #115 of 133
I got my 3960X up to 4.8 GHz (though its W/C) and my 4930K (which I consider a terrible OCer) will do 4.6 GHz all day long, and has been benched at 4.8 GHz. Of course I don't worry about nonsensical 24-hour P95 runs or anything like that. If the thing never crashes while I'm using it to do whatever I do on my PC then its stable enough for me.
post #116 of 133
i5-8600K @ 3.6GHz vs X5650 @ 3.6GHz (HT off)

8th gen vs 1st gen (double L1 & L2 cache with 3MB more L3 cache)

The witcher 3 full setting:
Xeon 5650 average 88
i5 8600k average 67
Battlefield 1:
i5 8600k : 115 FPS
Xeon X5650: 153


Westmere-EP is Nehalem-C

Had a strong feeling the i5-8400 would be at best a sidegrade for me. Been asking the usual youtube tech reviews to do a clock-per-clock
comparison since Coffee Lake launched. Both they don't even understand what a nonAVX Turbo Frequency is.
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post #117 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post

i5-8600K @ 3.6GHz vs X5650 @ 3.6GHz (HT off)

8th gen vs 1st gen (double L1 & L2 cache with 3MB more L3 cache)

The witcher 3 full setting:
Xeon 5650 average 88
i5 8600k average 67
Battlefield 1:
i5 8600k : 115 FPS
Xeon X5650: 153


Westmere-EP is Nehalem-C

Had a strong feeling the i5-8400 would be at best a sidegrade for me. Been asking the usual youtube tech reviews to do a clock-per-clock
comparison since Coffee Lake launched. Both they don't even understand what a nonAVX Turbo Frequency is.


what is nonAVX Turbo Frequency? lol
    
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post #118 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post

i5-8600K @ 3.6GHz vs X5650 @ 3.6GHz (HT off)

8th gen vs 1st gen (double L1 & L2 cache with 3MB more L3 cache)

The witcher 3 full setting:
Xeon 5650 average 88
i5 8600k average 67
Battlefield 1:
i5 8600k : 115 FPS
Xeon X5650: 153


Westmere-EP is Nehalem-C

Had a strong feeling the i5-8400 would be at best a sidegrade for me. Been asking the usual youtube tech reviews to do a clock-per-clock
comparison since Coffee Lake launched. Both they don't even understand what a nonAVX Turbo Frequency is.

From my understanding by using google translator the author of the video above is questioning the validity of the original video of the 8600K vs Ryzen comparison.
The results don't make sense, despite i5-8600K having lower cache, it must be significantly faster than X5650 because of the generational back-end improvements. Coffee Lake is a much newer and more efficient architecture. Nehalem used to struggle against highly clocked i5-2500Ks in games that are not threaded properly, so it doesn't make sense that the i5-8600K falls short against nehalem at the same clock.

Here is a 990X vs 8600K benchmark across different games :-

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/965-3/performances-jeux-3d.html
Edited by HeadlessKnight - 12/7/17 at 1:15pm
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post #119 of 133
Coffee Lake is the same as Skylake. Nehalem-C was renamed Westmere-EP [EP stands for Efficient Performance].
CL is a more than a full node shrink [32nm vs 14nm] over Westmere-EP

What you are testing and how you are testing are not always the same thing.
PC Games Hardware did a great review on the Coffee Lake hex-core i5 vs i7 last month.
For gaming they both are fine but for multi-tasking the i5 like previews quad-core i5
have problems.



Plenty of improvement from the newer platform [DDR4 vs DDR3, native SATA3 & USB3].

The whole thread here is about i7-930 Nahalem Revisited. Looking at the cost of a new i5 hex-core
the single thread and high overclocking headroom are nice but not worth the gains.

Performance per dollar if you already have a first generation i Core hex-core



i7-930 Revisit - Nehalem Benchmarks in 2017 vs. SB, Phenom
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2980-intel-i7-930-revisit-nehalem-benchmarks-2017?showall=1



i5-2500K @4.5GHz vs i7-930 @4.0GHz
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post #120 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post

Coffee Lake is the same as Skylake. Nehalem-C was renamed Westmere-EP [EP stands for Efficient Performance].
CL is a more than a full node shrink [32nm vs 14nm] over Westmere-EP

What you are testing and how you are testing are not always the same thing.
PC Games Hardware did a great review on the Coffee Lake hex-core i5 vs i7 last month.
For gaming they both are fine but for multi-tasking the i5 like previews quad-core i5
have problems.



Plenty of improvement from the newer platform [DDR4 vs DDR3, native SATA3 & USB3].

The whole thread here is about i7-930 Nahalem Revisited. Looking at the cost of a new i5 hex-core
the single thread and high overclocking headroom are nice but not worth the gains.

Performance per dollar if you already have a first generation i Core hex-core



i7-930 Revisit - Nehalem Benchmarks in 2017 vs. SB, Phenom
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2980-intel-i7-930-revisit-nehalem-benchmarks-2017?showall=1



i5-2500K @4.5GHz vs i7-930 @4.0GHz

Ubisoft games are trash encoded TBH
    
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