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[OC3D] Ethereum mining has just gotten a lot more difficult / Used GPUs flood the market (Updated)

23K views 308 replies 91 participants last post by  brucethemoose 
#1 ·
Quote:


Ethereum mining has hit a new difficult bump, making the mining less profitable with Ethereum mining is getting more difficult, with the value of the currency's value hitting a 50 day low of under $200 and miners reporting a new difficulty spike.

Today mining communities across the internet have reported a difficulty spike when mining, which is both hitting the value of the currency as some users sell their coin reserves while simultaneously making it more difficult to mine each new Ether coin. Right now reports are claiming that Ether is now 20% harder to mine.

Right now mining communities across the web are filled with chatter of the incoming "end of mining", which is something that seems increasingly likely if the value of the currency does not stabilise and difficulty of mining continues to increase.
Source: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/ethereum_mining_has_just_gotten_a_lot_more_difficult/1

Update to this thread:
Quote:
Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price crashes below $150

Over the past few months, there has been a GPU shortage, forcing the prices of mid-range graphics cards up as cryptocurrency miners from across the world purchased hardware in bulk in search for quick and easy profits.

This has forced the prices of most modern AMD and certain Nvidia GPUs to skyrocket, but now these GPUs are starting to saturate the used market as more and more Ethereum miners sell up and quit mining. Some other miners are starting to look at other emerging Cryptocurrencies, though it is clear that the hype behind Ethereum is dying down.

Earlier this week Ethereum's value dropped below $200, as soon as the currency experienced a new difficulty spike, making the currency 20% harder to mine and significantly less profitable. This combined with its decrease in value has made mining Ethereum unprofitable for many miners, especially in regions with higher than average electricity costs.

Now Ethereum is valued at less than $150, with the currency costing $134.97 at the time of writing, which is less than half of the currency's peak value. The currency has the potential to bounce back, though it is difficult to see the currency go back over £250 in the near future.



On second-hand sales websites like eBay and Gumtree, we have seen a lot of new GPU listing appear in recent days, with plenty of used AMD RX series GPUs appearing over the weekend. More hardware is expected to hit these sites over the coming days as some miners wind down their operations, though many will simply move to a more profitable currency or to invest their computing power into an emerging Cryptocurrency that has the prospect of high values in the future.

In recent weeks websites like eBay and Gumtree have been relatively bare of GPUs, with this week seeing a huge uptick in the number of new AMD RX listings, though pricing is still sitting well above AMD's MSRP. It is worth noting that we see more GPUs listing appearing in the EU than the US, potentially due to differing electricity costs and other variables that affect the profitability of mining.
Source 2:https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/used_gpus_flood_the_market_as_ethereum_s_price_crashes_below_150/1
 
#4 ·
the investment cost of GPUs in areas with inflated prices right now far outstrips the profit made from small-scale mining.
at the current difficulty, $400+ GTX1060 would need ~7months to pay itself, and thats without factoring in the power and internet bills.
its even worse off with RX series as they're either out of stock or not available (The store doesn't sell at all), and even if they were you'd find it cheaper to buy a GTX1070.

mining would've been profitable if the price of GPUs weren't inflated.

i somewhat find it hilarious though, GPUs right now are seen as "mining equipments".
i wonder when GPU reviewers would stop using games for their tests and use hash-rates to rate GPUs instead.
 
#5 ·
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Originally Posted by Particle View Post

1) It's a neat concept, but it is extremely inefficient. It's also a rather arbitrary thing to "embrace" unless the implication is that you mean you don't understand why people wouldn't want to mine. I don't mine because of two contributing factors: all of the software is shady and it doesn't really add anything of value to the economy. It's essentially a computational pyramid scheme.
indeed, besides a handful of truly beneficial cryptocurrencies, a lot of the others are scarily similar to pump-&-dump, ponzi or pyramid schemes.
 
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#6 ·
Most people don't "upgrade every two years" they upgrade when a game they want to play won't run anymore or they get a lump of money or their card fails and they can swing it or when they build a new system.

The 580 series has been out for approximately four months now.
 
#7 ·
If people are smart they should start selling cards especially RX card before their price plummets.
 
#9 ·
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Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

what do you mean by the last part?

i'm gonna throw in my opinion, might as well, there will be some cheap mined cards on ebay and co, but i believe majority of the miners will simply switch to another coin like zcash( which is backed by jp morgan) or monero ( which is preferred by darkweb) eitherway i don't see this mining phase going away for awhile, but hey at least miners are not buying up 1080, vega, or 1080 ti for that matter
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Well, i'm just asking, who really benefit from such a system ? I think our economy based on speculation is idiotic and always lead to catastrophic events, sooner or later. I'm still hoping for us to return to an economy based on reality, not speculation, at least to a certain extent. Speculation is driving people crazy and exacerbate greed.
 
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#10 ·
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Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

Well, i'm just asking, who really benefit from such a system ? I think our economy based on speculation is idiotic and always lead to catastrophic events, sooner or later. I'm still hoping for us to return to an economy based on reality, not speculation, at least to a certain extent. Speculation is driving people crazy and exacerbate greed.
2nd or 3rd world countries where their native currencies fluctuate as much as cryto if not worse, case example would be vanazuela. their currency is worth crap now due to unstable government and crap economy. having a alternative currency like bitcoin or ether is a very feasible idea.

if you try sending money from U.S to iran or any other countries you have to pay a middle man's fee, sometimes multiple middle mens' fee. the idea of crytocurrency eliminate that problem.

another example of blockchain technology is the benefit of streamlining the economy, when you purchase a cup of coffee with a credit card or debit, you don't simply just hand over the money, you basically send a signal to the bank that a transaction has occurred, then the bank put you on a debit and a credit ledger and proceed the transaction at a later time, you don't think your paying a fee since the price you paid for your coffee is the price shows up on ur statement at the end of the month, but the merchant is the one bearing the burden of paying your fee for using the credit service. and to cover their loss they charge your cup of coffee at a higher rate. thus in the end you're still paying for that fee one way or another. the blockchain technology eliminates this middle man service. thats why if you go to chinatown in new york, nearly most of the Chinese or asian restaurants do not accept credit card since they want to keep their price low and don't want to artificially inflate their price to cover for the transaction fee.
 
#11 ·
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Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

2nd or 3rd world countries where their native currencies fluctuate as much as cryto if not worse, case example would be vanazuela. their currency is worth crap now due to unstable government and crap economy. having a alternative currency like bitcoin or ether is a very feasible idea.

if you try sending money from U.S to iran or any other countries you have to pay a middle man's fee, sometimes multiple middle mens' fee. the idea of crytocurrency eliminate that problem.

another example of blockchain technology is the benefit of streamlining the economy, when you purchase a cup of coffee with a credit card or debit, you don't simply just hand over the money, you basically send a signal to the bank that a transaction has occurred, then the bank put you on a debit and a credit ledger and proceed the transaction at a later time, you don't think your paying a fee since the price you paid for your coffee is the price shows up on ur statement at the end of the month, but the merchant is the one bearing the burden of paying your fee for using the credit service. and to cover their loss they charge your cup of coffee at a higher rate. thus in the end you're still paying for that fee one way or another. the blockchain technology eliminates this middle man service. thats why if you go to chinatown in new york, nearly most of the Chinese or asian restaurants do not accept credit card since they want to keep their price low and don't want to artificially inflate their price to cover for the transaction fee.
Thank you, these are interesting elements to think about this. +rep
 
#12 ·
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Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

my statement was purely a fact, you're the one who skipped reading the entire line then insulted me first.
i think we should all cool it and take a step back, crytocurrency has huge potential to disrupt many fields of common inefficiency. the fundamental basic for banking haven't changed for the last 500 years, despite making ways of paying and recieving easier with technology, its still based on the credit/debit table. this inefficient method has been the status quo for way to long and now the banks are too big to fail. the cryto industry, if people are educated properly and understand the technology, will be a huge boost to mankind. by removing the human input needed to proceed with a transaction, the economy will not be harmed by human errors which could lead to fraud, inconsistency, and other negligent error that wouldn't be possible with the blockchain technology.
 
#13 ·
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Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

Stop acting like economics is a science, it's not.
actually this is a good debate topic.

economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
now the question is, is any of the three related to science?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

i think we should all cool it and take a step back, crytocurrency has huge potential to disrupt many fields of common inefficiency. the fundamental basic for banking haven't changed for the last 500 years, despite making ways of paying and recieving easier with technology, its still based on the credit/debit table. this inefficient method has been the status quo for way to long and now the banks are too big to fail. the cryto industry, if people are educated properly and understand the technology, will be a huge boost to mankind. by removing the human input needed to proceed with a transaction, the economy will not be harmed by human errors which could lead to fraud, inconsistency, and other negligent error that wouldn't be possible with the blockchain technology.
theres a problem though, cryptocurrency is designed by humans, and regardless of how flexible cryptocurrency is as a whole, there would still be loopholes in the entire system.
one of it is the "monopoly issue" of the blockchain workload, where if one group ends up with more than 50% of the total hashrate they'd end up having the power to manipulate block distribution.

and take the altcoins for example, they're riding on the popularity of those major cryptocoins like bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum and such, but a lot of them are suspiciously a scam.
thankfully theres a few websites which keeps track of these "scam-like" cryptocoins.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

actually this is a good debate topic.

economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
now the question is, is any of the three related to science?
actually there, under the ethereum umbrella, there is a token system reserved for scientist the system pays out to the science community for scientific contributions. i may be very wrong on how the distribution works since i'm not a scientist and therefore i don't really pay attention to this token.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

actually this is a good debate topic.

economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
now the question is, is any of the three related to science?
theres a problem though, cryptocurrency is designed by humans, and regardless of how flexible cryptocurrency is as a whole, there would still be loopholes in the entire system.

take the altcoins for example, they're riding on the popularity of those major cryptocoins like bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum and such, but a lot of them are suspiciously a scam.
thankfuly theres a few websites which keeps track of these "scam-like" cryptocoins.
well ofcourse there are alot if ICO thats just out there to ride to coattail of more established currencies. but that doesn't mean crytocurrency in general is a scam. if you do your due diligence and understand the fundamental of what exist already and what works already, then you should be pretty scam proof, its these individuals who are looking for a quick pump and dump on the newest ICO have the most risk since they have no appreciation for the underline value of the potential new technology a ICO have.
 
#16 ·
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Originally Posted by emdea22 View Post

I did embrace it till it got controlled by the US govt somewhere around the time when LTC asics first came out.

I was going to buy a 1080 or 1080ti to upgrade my RX 480 8GB a month ago. Sadly here in Romania everything is sold out or EXTREMELY overpriced and i personally know more people who can't upgrade because of it - and yes - most of us were waiting for vega until we realized its a room heater.

Btw i have no problems with normal people and mining, my problem is with the bloody scammers that started companies based on lies tricking people into paying them money so they can buy thousands of GPUs and keep most of the profit for themselves. And these are the ones also responsible for the price fluctuations because they mine and dump. Dont assume people are ignorant just because they dont like whats happening with the mining craze right now.
How did it come under control? I thought that the blockchain works in such a way to prevent that.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

well ofcourse there are alot if ICO thats just out there to ride to coattail of more established currencies. but that doesn't mean crytocurrency in general is a scam. if you do your due diligence and understand the fundamental of what exist already and what works already, then you should be pretty scam proof, its these individuals who are looking for a quick pump and dump on the newest ICO have the most risk since they have no appreciation for the underline value of the potential new technology a ICO have.
thats why there should be considerations with regards to those scams.
just wantonly saying "cryptocoin can earn you a lot" would cause those other clueless people to go about it without even knowing what they're doing.

at the very least, nobody should state that cryptocurrency mining is very profitable, when its clearly easier said than done.
just think of the investment cost alone, who'd be able to afford that many GPUs, specially when the current prices are inflated.

i mean, because of these people who keeps spreading that, my friend in particular got into it with just a single GPU to boot.
he wouldn't believe me that he won't be earning much, if at all, he only stopped one month later after he saw his tripled electricity bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by assaulth3ro911 View Post

How did it come under control? I thought that the blockchain works in such a way to prevent that.
laws that prevented transactions, or a heavy tax on top of it.
 
#18 ·
Was unfortunate enough to build LiteCoin on the WeMineLTC pool back in the day with my dual 5850's. I had cashed out most of it into my wallet, but when they disappeared without a trace it took all the desire I had to mine right out of me.

As far as risks go, there is zero oversight, zero recourse and zero consumer protection. It's the wild west all over again.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

thats why there should be considerations with regards to those scams.
just wantonly saying "cryptocoin can earn you a lot" would cause those other clueless people to go about it without even knowing what they're doing.

at the very least, nobody should state that cryptocurrency mining is very profitable, when its clearly easier said than done.
just think of the investment cost alone, who'd be able to afford that many GPUs, specially when the current prices are inflated.

i mean, because of these people who keeps spreading that, my friend in particular got into it with just a single GPU to boot.
he wouldn't believe me that he won't be earning much, if at all, he only stopped one month later after he saw his tripled electricity bill.
laws that prevented transactions, or a heavy tax on top of it.
well it was very profitable up until a couple of weeks ago. back in may/june the value of one ether was 380 dollars, to get one ether in a month you need 2 1070 or 2 rx 580 or 480. since at the time the 1070 was going for 320-350 range, the cards pay for itself within 2 month period. the profitability dropped when people start catching on what is going on, and thus the hype began, thus blowing up the currency to a new high thats extremely unsustainable. right now because of the influence of alphabay(darknet's ebay) we got couple of cryto holding pablo escabors dumping their furtunes of coins on the market and thus flooding the market and dropping the value of the coins.

all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,
In a way, I think crypto may be hedging against government disruption. When India locks down cash, governments willfully devalue currency, crypto goes up. In this day and age of tin-pot dictators (or maybe any age), its an interesting gamble. Of course, also therefore a potential threat to governments, which introduces big risk.
 
#21 ·
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Originally Posted by Quantium40 View Post

In a way, I think crypto may be hedging against government disruption. When India locks down cash, governments willfully devalue currency, crypto goes up. In this day and age of tin-pot dictators (or maybe any age), its an interesting gamble. Of course, also therefore a potential threat to governments, which introduces big risk.
you are absolutely correct, crytocurrencies operates on blockchain which allow we the people as ledger holders, this is untamable, uncountable, and un-inflatable by the government or any other institution. in today's world of shady governments around the world, and bullish stock market, cryto currencies holds a special place in currency stability even given how unstable the market it might seen right now.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

well it was very profitable up until a couple of weeks ago. back in may/june the value of one ether was 380 dollars, to get one ether in a month you need 2 1070 or 2 rx 580 or 480. since at the time the 1070 was going for 320-350 range, the cards pay for itself within 2 month period. the profitability dropped when people start catching on what is going on, and thus the hype began, thus blowing up the currency to a new high thats extremely unsustainable. right now because of the influence of alphabay(darknet's ebay) we got couple of cryto holding pablo escabors dumping their furtunes of coins on the market and thus flooding the market and dropping the value of the coins.

all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,
yes the payback takes 2~3months back in may~june, but thats not a guarantee though, difficulty rises as more miners enter plus coin prices fluctuates as well.

take the current situation as an example, if you bought your card back in may you'd only have mined about 70% the worth of your GPU and still have a month more before it pays itself, thats a total of 4months.
its even worse if you hadn't cashed out when ETH was still at ~$380, the total worth of the coins you mined back in may would still require you to mine 3 months more, thats a total of 6months.
and if you start right now it'll take 20% longer to pay itself back due to the difficulty rise, thats roughly 7months, and this is while not considering whats to happen 2~3months from now.
 
#25 ·
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Originally Posted by rbarrett96 View Post

Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards

So you care a little bit then.
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I meant I couldn't care at all
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it's like saying I can't buy running shoes because I'm not a runner. Makes no sense. Graphics cards are out there for anyone who wants one. Except if you want one right now... you're going to get gouged... haha
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don't blame the miners though! Blame the suppliers and retailers... they don't have to jack up the prices, do they?
 
#26 ·
Yes, link someone in romania a website that only ships cards to the united states... that's a smart, HELPFUL plan.
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Completely alleviates the issue that GPUs are out of stock everywhere because someone wanted to utilize the raw data crunching power of a couple THOUSAND sub-$200 GPUs to make free money. Yeah that sounds totally fine.
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Should definitely learn when your argument is bad and your reasoning is worse. It might help keeping off the rest of the masses when they ALL come after you and call you out.
 
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