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[ZDNet / Ars Technica] Microsoft cuts off Windows 10 support early for some PCs

5K views 108 replies 38 participants last post by  TUFinside 
#1 ·


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An entire generation of PCs, most only three or four years old, are now unable to receive new feature updates to Windows 10. If Microsoft doesn't deliver a patch within the next six to nine months, those PCs could be cut off from security fixes.
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Some PCs that received a free upgrade to Windows 10 less than two years ago are now officially blocked from receiving future updates.

If you are one of the unlucky owners of one of the first 2-in-1 PCs, announced in 2012 and sold throughout 2013 and 2014, your PC was eligible for the free Windows 10 upgrade in mid-2015, and it also received the Summer 2016 Anniversary Update (version 1607) without any compatibility issues.

But when Windows Update tries to install the March 2017 Creators Update, version 1703, the installation fails with a dire (and confusing) message that reads:
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Windows 10 is no longer supported on this PC

Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10.
Don't be fooled by that message. There's no app to uninstall. This problem occurs because of a fundamental incompatibility between the PC hardware and the latest release of Windows 10.

I've received multiple reports of this problem, which affects devices built around Intel's Atom Clover Trail series CPUs. Those chips first appeared in entry-level Windows 8 PCs, especially 2-in-1 devices, between four and five years ago.

I was able to confirm that this hard block exists by attempting to install the Creators Update on an HP Envy X2, which uses a Clover Trail CPU, the Atom Z2760. HP shipped me the device in early 2015 and I've used it in lab tests as a benchmark for low-spec CPUs.
Source: ZDNet

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These Clover Trail machines largely shipped with Windows 8 or 8.1. If their owners had kept Windows 8.1, they'd be eligible for the regular 5+5 support policy, with security updates ceasing on October 1, 2023. But the machines were deemed compatible with Windows 10 and hence eligible for the free upgrade that Microsoft offered to Windows 8.1 users for the first year of Windows 10's release.

Anyone who took advantage of that offer now stands to see a drastic curtailment in the level of support for their system. Each Windows 10 update will receive security fixes for just 18 months. Version 1607, the latest that these Clover Trail machines can install, will drop out of support in early 2018. After that date, they'll cease to receive any patches at all.
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A support note from Acer suggests that the roadblock is temporary:
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The following Intel Clover Trail processors are currently not supported on Windows 10 Creators Update:

  • Atom Z2760
  • Atom Z2520
  • Atom Z2560
  • Atom Z2580

Microsoft is working with us to help provide compatible drivers to address this incompatibility. If you install the Windows 10 creators update, icons and text may not appear at all, or [they] may show up as solid color blocks or bars. If you have already installed Creators Update and are experiencing problems, you can use Windows 10 recovery options to restore your system to the previous build.
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Several months after the release of version 1703, however, those compatible drivers do not appear to have materialized.
Source: Ars Technica

Indeed, the support article mentioned above was last updated on the 12th of April, more than three months ago.

Anyway,

I can't
say
that
I'm
surprised.

Maybe with the issue seeing some media spotlight they will rush to fix it.
 
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#2 ·
This is disgusting. I understand a company cannot just give away a product be they all but force people to move to windows 10 then they shut the whole computer down in less than 2 years? This is why people switch because they said they would not support older systems anymore.

I should start a free Linux class to show people how to use Linux in place of windows. Since most of the professional world use it for word processing and internet browsing anyway.

To anyone out there who see this, hire your nearest Linux administrator and start the change over NOW. Microsoft is on the path to charging everyone just to turn on their computer.

This seriously sickens me.
 
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#5 ·
I thought clover trail was reserved for tablets and smartphones...

Also, it is bottom of the barrel hardware from 5+ years ago... Considering that Intel abandoned their smartphone and tablet lineup a few years ago, is it any surprise that said hardware is also losing software support?
 
#6 ·
Luckily I did not take the bait and downgrade my Asus Transformer tablet from Win 8.1 to Win 10. I suspected this was going to happen.

Now one will buy a computer, Win 10 will work up to a point and then it will tell you sorry ditch the computer our ongoing set of patches will not work on it? What a way to force you to upgrade your hardware as well as your OS software every few years even if you still had a perfectly functioning PC.

I have two words for M$...
 
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#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

I thought clover trail was reserved for tablets and smartphones...

Also, it is bottom of the barrel hardware from 5+ years ago... Considering that Intel abandoned their smartphone and tablet lineup a few years ago, is it any surprise that said hardware is also losing software support?
They are not from "5+ years ago", they were only launched in 2013 (read the first article, relevant quote below too). In any case, you miss the point. It's not a surprise given Microsoft's terms as I pointed out since the beginning, but it is a surprise to many that took the aggressive Windows 10 offer when they will now run out of support in early 2018 unless Microsoft does something about it in the meantime, instead of 2023, had they stayed with Windows 8.1. It's only the difference between 10 years of support or having it arbitrarily cut in half.

Also, it wasn't only for tablets and smartphones; they were used in hybrid laptops and also small form factor desktop boxes. The HP Envy X2 initially cost $700 and then $600, hardly what I'd call bottom of the barrel:
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Microsoft and its OEM partners made a big deal of this entry-level Atom processor for the first wave of Windows 8 devices. An Intel press release (PDF) from the launch event in September 2012 highlighted eight tablets and hybrids from Acer, ASUS, Dell, Fujitsu, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, and ZTE.

The devices themselves were delayed until early 2013 because of driver problems.
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The Envy X2 went on sale at a starting price of $700, but the price was cut by $100 shortly thereafter. HP and its distributors continued to offer the device until its replacement arrived some two years later, and bargain hunters could still find it for sale in 2015.

No one knows exactly how many Clover Trail-based devices were sold, but collectively the total from all manufacturers was probably in the millions. Today, owners of those devices who took advantage of Microsoft's free upgrade offer for Windows 10 are facing a rude shock.
Also:

http://gizmodo.com/5947203/what-is-intel-clover-trail
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Samsung, Dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer, ASUS and others are already in the process of building Clover Trail tablets. In fact, you can spot Clover Trail in hybrid laptop tablets such as the pretty awesome looking Dell XPS Duo 12 and Samsung Series 5 Slate. Intel says over 20 tablets are in the works right now.
http://gizmodo.com/5939168/dells-xps-duo-12-might-have-the-best-laptop-of-any-laptoptablet-combination

http://gizmodo.com/5938917/samsungs-new-windows-8-hybrid-tablets-look-like-galaxy-notes-with-keyboards?tag=samsung
 
#8 ·
If this trend keeps up no longer can people buy amazing equupment to last 3-5 years. This means it could evolve into buying a mew gpu and cpu every other gen. Gross.
 
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#9 ·
Well that's a goof up. Maybe ms will let them revert to 8.1. I do wonder how well clover trails can browse the internet though. Bay trails released the next year were twice as fast, 64 bit, had virtualization and sse 4.1,4.2 and can only play 720p video smoothly. The next one, cherry trail could do 1080p playback without stutters. Still I need to use ublock on my cherry trail tv sticks to keep web pages from freezing.
Hate to think of how long it takes to download and reinstall windows on one of those things.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

If this trend keeps up no longer can people buy amazing equupment to last 3-5 years. This means it could evolve into buying a mew gpu and cpu every other gen. Gross.
Not for me, loaded up a old version of Windows 7 and plan to not upgrade in the future. I will just suffer with Linux and Wine if I want to play any new titles in the future, and if they make it Windows 10 only then I wont be gaming new titles in the future.

Honestly gaming is the ONLY reason I'm even on Windows anymore....everything else I use has Linux support. I would be interested to see if Mac / Linux numbers have grown since Microsoft began these new tactics.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

The HP Envy X2 initially cost $700 and then $600, hardly what I'd call bottom of the barrel:
A fool and his money are soon departed... That is about all I can say to anyone buying a $700 tablet with a SoC that was litterally being given away by intel...

 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

A fool and his money are soon departed... That is about all I can say to anyone buying a $700 tablet with a SoC that was litterally being given away by intel...

Lol right,

Also its been 4 years time to upgrade.

Maybe 4 years is a little too soon, I guess.

However being that I personally have family that is still trying to use and hold on to a AIO from 2002, with Windows XP on it, and asks me to fix it every 4 months I understand.

Because the people that dont have a techie to "Fix It" and will not listen to the Replace it, we tell them. They call MS. There does need to be some kind of ITS OVER, buy a new one!

Like I said 4 years might be a little too soon. They gave away too many free windows 10s, they are going to have to start kicking people off to get them to buy it.

For them as a company at some point, they have to cut off support. They cannot afford to keep supporting stuff long past its lifetime.

Android cuts you off, usually after 2 years 3 for security if that, and no one complains, and phones these days cost more than a lot of PCs.

My Pixel XL will stop receiving support next year, and I will replace it. I paid 700 dollars for it, and I am not complaining. Of course, we work on a hammy down system, my wife doesn't care about PCs or phones, so she always takes my old one, with a CM install happily, and I get a new one, and my daughter gets the one she had lol (that likely wont work once my daughter hits the teens, but for now it does fine).

TLDR: If you want to hold on to an ancient device get Linux, it is better suited for it as well.

Its been over 4 years, no sympathy from me.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

I thought clover trail was reserved for tablets and smartphones...

Also, it is bottom of the barrel hardware from 5+ years ago... Considering that Intel abandoned their smartphone and tablet lineup a few years ago, is it any surprise that said hardware is also losing software support?
Yes. This is a surprise because the original OP system running just fine on these was supposed to be fine until 2023. And it still is - unless you upgraded to Windows 10 it seems.
 
#16 ·
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Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

And here my nearly 7 year old, extremely slow C-50 is supported on my nearly 7 year old tablet. huehuehuehuehue
Because you were clever enough not to buy an Atom
:lachen:


Which begs for the point... How much is this Microsoft and how much is it Intel? Because my 1055T has no issues updating and that's from April 2010 (it doesn't even have official W8.1/Server 2012 drivers).
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

And here my nearly 7 year old, extremely slow C-50 is supported on my nearly 7 year old tablet. huehuehuehuehue
Because you were clever enough not to buy an Atom
lachen.gif


Which begs for the point... How much is this Microsoft and how much is it Intel? Because my 1055T has no issues updating and that's from April 2010 (it doesn't even have official W8.1/Server 2012 drivers).
Atoms of that generation were/are utter garbage anyway. They only got good better recently.
 
#18 ·
atom of that generation was the breakthrough that brought you the better atom.

pre clovertrail was absolute garbage, clovertrail was decent CPU wise and a vastly improved GPU over last gen though shy of baytrail.

baytrail was the atom that is good enough to game on which lead to the current iteration of atom today which can actually run some AAA games at 720p low

other then the need for more ram clovertrail atom can satisfy my daily PC needs and im quite the heavy power user.
 
#19 ·
For some people going back is going to be a painful process since going back isn't just about uninstalling and done. You will most likely need to reinstall the whole system, which means doing backups etc before, restoring programs, drivers. Not the most fun part.
 
#20 ·
MS probably just wanted to advance their os to use newer hardware features. Clovertrails are practically p4s. Other than energy savings, I can't find any advancements on cpuworld other than the powervr graphics. People complain about the lack of software support for multiple cores. Software has to progress sometime.
 
#21 ·
It doesn't sound like this was entirely intentional right? Maybe.
biggrin.gif
Sounds like a fix is being worked on.

Still a huge inconvenience though.
 
#22 ·
This isn't the first time MS has pulled a despicable stunt like this. Just look at the furor created when MS announced it would no longer support Win 7 on Skylake installations after a certain date after people had already been using that combination. MS eventually had to completely back off on that (albeit reluctantly) after the ruction that was raised over that boneheaded move.

Beside that mess (polite term), every time MS updates Win 10, there are reports of some hardware or software that suddenly will not work anymore.

With Win 10, MS' business model changed from a new OS every few years with each new OS guaranteed to be supported for ten years (including remaining compatible with the same hardware and software currently compatible with that OS) to one OS that will be continually "upgraded" with no regard to being compatible with all existing hardware and software.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluker5 View Post

MS probably just wanted to advance their os to use newer hardware features. Clovertrails are practically p4s. Other than energy savings, I can't find any advancements on cpuworld other than the powervr graphics. People complain about the lack of software support for multiple cores. Software has to progress sometime.
All the Clover Trail CPUs are dual cores with HT.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by rluker5 View Post

...People complain about the lack of software support for multiple cores. Software has to progress sometime.
True but not at the expense of existing users. One of the reasons for the demise of Commodore Business Machines (CBM) was they abandoned their Commodore 64 and 128 users when they came out with the Amiga. No one trusted CBM after that. CBM failed because they did what they wanted instead of what their customers wanted so their customers went elsewhere.
 
#25 ·
From what I read the gpu used in those atom's is a powervr SGX544 a mobile gpu from 2010 which in all likelihood does not even have a proper wddm 1.0 driver and only supports up to dx9.3 so I guess its not that strage that basically a mobile gpu doesn't get supported in windows indefinitely. It is by no means standard pc hardware.

That being said it is a bad sign that windows deprecates hardware within windows 10 and basically forces people to either go back to 8.1 or do without security updates in 18 months.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by qlum View Post

From what I read the gpu used in those atom's is a powervr SGX544 a mobile gpu from 2010 which in all likelihood does not even have a proper wddm 1.0 driver and only supports up to dx9.3 so I guess its not that strage that basically a mobile gpu doesn't get supported in windows indefinitely. It is by no means standard pc hardware.

That being said it is a bad sign that windows deprecates hardware within windows 10 and basically forces people to either go back to 8.1 or do without security updates in 18 months.
Very likely.

As far as I can tell, what's happening is that it can't be upgraded to the latest and greatest feature updates, not that the current build doesn't work anymore - unless I'm missing something?
 
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