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post #2101 of 5946
The two main reasons the 2500k had such longevity, people's ignorance about games taking advantage of hyperthreading, and the fact it was soldered.

The IPC gains over nehalem are kind of besides the point, the real champion is the 2600k.

This is also part of the reason i believe the "new 2500k" will be the ryzen 1600/1600x. Its going to have actual longevity not only because of its core count, but if AMD decides to use toothpaste on zen 2/3/4.
Edited by Scotty99 - 9/20/17 at 11:32pm
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post #2102 of 5946
This is also why i suggest people skip the i5 8600k, unless they are fine with games running half as good as 8700k in 3 years, which it will.
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post #2103 of 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post


Also

Z370 prices
B1FD862 MAXIMUS X APEX LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 Z370 DESIGNED FOR EXTREME PERFORMANCE $327.97
B1FD863 MAXIMUSXHEROWI-FIAC LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 Z370 11AC WIRELESS GIGABIT USB 3.1 $266.82
B1FD869 PRIME Z370-A LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI DVI M.2 8TH GENERATION INTEL CORE $170.45
B1FD870 PRIME Z370-P LGA1151 DDR4 HDMI DVI M.2 Z370 5X PROTECTION III GIGABIT LAN AND HD $135.10
B1FD864 STRIX Z370-E GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI DVI 11AC WIRELESS AND USB 3.1 FOR 8TH $201.64
B1FD865 STRIX Z370-F GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI DVI M.2 GIGABIT LAN AND USB 3.1 FOR 8TH $185.16
B1FD866 STRIX Z370-H GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 HDMI DVI M.2 8TH GENERATION INTEL CORE $162.77
B1FD867 STRIX Z370-I GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 USB 3.1 FOR 8TH GENERATION INTEL $184.52
B1FD868 TUF Z370 PLUS GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 HDMI DVI M.2 USB 3.1 FOR 8TH GENERATION INTEL $146.13

http://www.shopblt.com/search/order_id=%21ORDERID%21&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=z370&search=Search

Hu ho .. No Formula at launch ? mad.gif
Apex is tempting though ...
 
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post #2104 of 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty99 View Post

This is also why i suggest people skip the i5 8600k, unless they are fine with games running half as good as 8700k in 3 years, which it will.

Yeah but i5 still good now even though i7 is better. Yeah if I had 3570K instead of 3770K right now I would have upgraded long time ago to an i7 and used more money in the long run.
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post #2105 of 5946
Is the Z370 Apex designed like the X299 version or the Z270?

So it looks like Coffeelake can reach 5300mhz on a single 240/360? It may be possible to reach 5400-5500mhz+ with more massive radiator sizes.
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post #2106 of 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by czin125 View Post

Is the Z370 Apex designed like the X299 version or the Z270?

So it looks like Coffeelake can reach 5300mhz on a single 240/360? It may be possible to reach 5400-5500mhz+ with more massive radiator sizes.

I imagine like the Z270, since Z370 ans Z270 are pretty close.
 
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post #2107 of 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty99 View Post

The two main reasons the 2500k had such longevity, people's ignorance about games taking advantage of hyperthreading, and the fact it was soldered.

The IPC gains over nehalem are kind of besides the point, the real champion is the 2600k.

This is also part of the reason i believe the "new 2500k" will be the ryzen 1600/1600x. Its going to have actual longevity not only because of its core count, but if AMD decides to use toothpaste on zen 2/3/4.
I might be just disabled ex-game developer, but I did lot of speed testing and overclocking with ability to change executable. The main reason why games don't care about HT is they need real cores, when they are properly written, and HT is just harmful because two threads on single core compete for ALU.

There are two reasons why HT isn't massive disaster for properly written multithreaded game. 1. Windows detects heavily used threads and schedule them on real cores first. 2. CPU has likely a detection for certain common patterns and gives less resources for these threads that are just checking for things.

So HT might help when W10 decide to do sneaky update behind your back without even telling you what it updates, without SSD and HT performance tanks, but so helps 6 cores when game needs only 4. (And of course large cache helps as well.)
post #2108 of 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

I might be just disabled ex-game developer, but I did lot of speed testing and overclocking with ability to change executable. The main reason why games don't care about HT is they need real cores, when they are properly written, and HT is just harmful because two threads on single core compete for ALU.

There are two reasons why HT isn't massive disaster for properly written multithreaded game. 1. Windows detects heavily used threads and schedule them on real cores first. 2. CPU has likely a detection for certain common patterns and gives less resources for these threads that are just checking for things.

So HT might help when W10 decide to do sneaky update behind your back without even telling you what it updates, without SSD and HT performance tanks, but so helps 6 cores when game needs only 4. (And of course large cache helps as well.)

What? Games have been using HT and SMT and been getting performance gains from it this isnt 2010 when games had bad performance due to HT rolleyes.gif
post #2109 of 5946
For purely gaming that uses 4 threads which is common-place now, the 8600K is perfect. Best clocks, best latency, lower price, and a little CPU headroom. HT's primary purpose isn't gaming since gaming prefers lower latency. HT was designed to improve execution throughput when there are branch mis-predictions or memory or I/O stalls, and therefore can waste precious L1/L2 cache. Having said that, there are some games that continuously stream assets in real-time and/or have very complex real-time branching, but this should not be the norm.

HT was great when 4c/8t was the mainstream, because it provided the needed buffer when games utilized all 4 real cores. 6 highly clocked real cores is plenty of buffer and will be for quite a while, since it is essentially difficult to make naturally serial game logic parallel. It's true that you can have more/better sounds and graphics with more utility threads, but that doesn't enhance the serial core game logic.
post #2110 of 5946
Quick question as I missed a couple of days of posts and got confused. Is there some magic z390 board coming out that will supposedly support IceLake (or whatever the 8/16 update to Coffee Lake will be)?

Does that mean I shouldn't buy a z370 setup when they come out because it won't support the jump to the 8/16 Cannon/IceLake?
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