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[Various] 6-Core Coffee Lake Lineup: i7-8700K & i5-8600K / Official Reviews & Benchmarks (Update 19) - Page 395

post #3941 of 6288
Oh im buying the k lol, just trying to make a point of how awesome it is you can put a locked cpu to 4.6ghz on all cores for the type that would rather not bother with an OC, like your wife.

8700 would have a 1ghz all core lead over 1800x, a 400-450 dollar CPU.....and all you have to do is set xmp/enable mce.

And like someone earlier mentioned, keep an eye out for bclk overclocking on the 8400, depending on the boards that could be a real thing.
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post #3942 of 6288
i don't watch those guys but that shampoo analogy and hundred dollar bills in the box comment was pretty hilarious.

so there's that.
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post #3943 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty99 View Post

Oh im buying the k lol, just trying to make a point of how awesome it is you can put a locked cpu to 4.6ghz on all cores for the type that would rather not bother with an OC, like your wife.

8700 would have a 1ghz all core lead over 1800x, a 400-450 dollar CPU.....and all you have to do is set xmp/enable mce.

And like someone earlier mentioned, keep an eye out for bclk overclocking on the 8400, depending on the boards that could be a real thing.


Yeah because overclocking this days is rocket science. If you are going to turn XMP and MCE ON you are "overclocking" and stability is not guarantied.
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post #3944 of 6288
No it is guaranteed. Do not confuse what is going on in gamers nexus video:

1. MCE pushes volts past what is needed for these chips to run at their all core max boost, stability is guaranteed from this point of view.
2. Heat. The only chip that people even need to worry a little bit about is the 8700. We dont know yet if a stock cooler will handle a MCE'd 8700 under a stress test type of scenario, gaming load there will be no worries. My guess is it will be fine and stay under 90c (which is well below throttling levels)
3. Steve got instability because of blender, not MCE. Watch the video again please, he specifically stated blender has been "weird" lately and said prime 95 ran just fine, which is more stressful than anything a person buying a 8700 and enabling xmp is going to be doing.
4. 8700 is a 65w chip. Now before you type something about me not understanding how TDP changes based on frequency/volts, the 65w number actually matters here. Its going to go above spec here with MCE enabled there is no doubt, but its going to be well below what a 8700k runs at in terms of volts/temps. That 65w number is going to play a part, they binned these chips for a reason at 4.7 and 4.6ghz, its in my assessment that 4.6ghz is the point where coffee can stay below the "voltage wall" that people who have been overclocking a while know what that is.

Intel takes into account worst case scenarios, i do not forsee a situation where a 8700 would throttle even in a stress test with its stock cooler. Let me reiterate, stability is a NON ISSUE with MCE. I dont feel like i should have to explain this, but people watched a video from a youtube channel where a guy said a program crashed, common sense denotes that MCE pushing volts up high is going to add to stability (with a bit of excess heat of course) not take away from it.
Edited by Scotty99 - 10/6/17 at 9:29pm
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post #3945 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty99 View Post

Heh its kind of funny how misunderstood MCE really is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU3mt84ODRg&t=28m00s

Not once did they even mention MCE. To me its clear MCE simply wasnt on with kyles system, if they asked kyle if MCE was on or not they should have mentioned that, but nope not even that.

Just wanted to link showing that the largest tech tuber on the planet doesn't know what MCE is. Instead they blame it on "some boards not being fully tuned for coffee lake " or "vrm throttling" lol. The difference in scores are exactly what someone would expect on a system with MCE on and a system with MCE off...

What is MCE ? How does it affect performance ?
    
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post #3946 of 6288
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post #3947 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cascade View Post

"MCE is not useful in any situation" Read that back then ask yourself if you're making any sense.

Yes, absolutes are bad...

MCE is similar to ASUSs Auto tuning. You get higher clocks that are not always stable using voltages that are well beyond typical voltage for a specific frequency for the chip.



Hell, if you can enable MCE then you can also set the base multiplier to peak boost frequency and leave voltage to auto and end up with an overclock with lower voltage than if you simply enable MCE.
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post #3948 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Yes, absolutes are bad...

MCE is similar to ASUSs Auto tuning. You get higher clocks that are not always stable using voltages that are well beyond typical voltage for a specific frequency for the chip.



Hell, if you can enable MCE then you can also set the base multiplier to peak boost frequency and leave voltage to auto and end up with an overclock with lower voltage than if you simply enable MCE.

Wrong on both points.

1. Extra volts does NOT take away from stability. I have been overclocking CPU's since ~2001 and never have i gotten a blue screen/crash from too many volts, always too little.
2. You cannot set the 8700 to run at its max turbo on all cores under load by changing multi's in the bios, this is reserved for K skus, only MCE is going to enable this behavior.
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post #3949 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty99 View Post

Wrong on both points.

1. Extra volts does NOT take away from stability. I have been overclocking CPU's since ~2001 and never have i gotten a blue screen/crash from too many volts, always too little.
2. You cannot set the 8700 to run at its max turbo on all cores under load by changing multi's in the bios, this is reserved for K skus, only MCE is going to enable this behavior.


1. Again with the strawman....I never said voltage causes instability. Instability can arise if voltage is high and cooling is insufficient which will cause the system to shut down or cause other abnormalities as the chip reaches thermal limits. Setting core voltage way too high can burn out the chip. MCE does not set the voltage beyond identified safe thresholds so the latter point is moot in this discussion.


2. You are once again assuming that it does for unlocked chips. TPU suggests that locked chips default to Intel specific boost for all cores. The unverified statement from Gigabyte that you keep referencing also seems to imply variation between boards. Since MCE is infact a board manufacturer added feature, the only way to validate the claim is by individual board verification...


This is the last I will say on the topic of MCE. You are welcome to continue with conjecture. Considering you plan on going with a X chip and have no skin in the game, one can only hope that your recommendations for the locked chips fall upon deaf ears...
Edited by Slomo4shO - 10/6/17 at 10:00pm
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post #3950 of 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

1. Blue screens and crashes aren't the sole definitions of instability. Given what you've said about your own 'stability testing', I'd think that even you'd be inclined to say that this is not a topic in which your are either interested or particularly experienced.

2.  On every Intel CPU I've ever owned, locked or not, I've been able to manually adjust the multipliers up to (or well below) the maximum turbo frequency. Whether or not this is efficacious any longer, I don't know as I'm not particularly interested in Coffee Lake. MCE is like the XMP of Turbo pinning; it's not engaging any behaviour disallowed by Intel, it's just providing a simple toggle for lazy people and idiots.

Please read a little closer as to what is being discussed. No one is claiming bsod's/crashes are a sole source of instability, i am simply combating peoples false beliefs that MCE's higher than needed voltage would be cause for concern. The only reason these people are worried about stability is because of that video steve posted, and he had a blender crash lol. He then went on to say blender has been acting really funny lately, and was crashing on other systems.

As for 2, i am not aware of ever a time where you could manually set multiplier for a locked CPU so that ALL CORES will boost to the single core max. I know a few gens ago they had "semi unlocked" cpu's, but that is not the same as MCE and it surely would not allow you to set all cores to max single core boost when a load was detected.

MCE is simply a nice bonus for people looking to get a little more out of the cheaper locked SKU's, and again is something i recommend everyone doing if they arent ready to jump into a full overclock experience on a k chip.
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 8700k Rog Strix z370-F Asus Strix 1080ti Gskill Trident-z RGB 3000  
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Fractal Design Meshify C 
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Intel Pentium G4560 Asrock H110M-ITX PNY GT 1030 4GB Team Dark 2400  
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PNY CS900 240gb SSD Vizio Smartcast E55 Logitech K400 Inwin BP655.300 
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