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[RT] Foxconn To Announce New U.S. Manufacturing Plant

3K views 56 replies 34 participants last post by  EniGma1987 
#1 ·


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-foxconn-wisconsin-idUSKBN1AB258
Quote:
Electronics manufacturer Foxconn will announce plans to build a multi-billion dollar flat panel screen plant in Wisconsin at a White House event later on Wednesday, a source briefed on the matter said.

The factory is expected initially to create 3,000 jobs and produce computer and TV screens.
It's official, the U.S is BACK in the hardware manufacturing game.

And they can't be stopped.
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#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopackersjt View Post

Put the nets up!!!!
Won't need them.

With the power of unions and the backing of the White House itself, nobody is going to be killing themselves.

This is one of the most hyped U.S factory launches in years, everything is built around making the people working there as comfortable as possible.

It'll be one the best places to work on the planet.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by frickfrock999 View Post

With the power of unions and the backing of the White House itself, nobody is going to be killing themselves.
Just curious, what union? Haven't read anything to this effect/would be a huge shift in the electronics industry in the US/I don't know of any electronics trade unions in the US.

Edit: Also, Wisconsin (Act 10, Right to Work state).
 
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#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by frickfrock999 View Post

Won't need them.

With the power of unions and the backing of the White House itself, nobody is going to be killing themselves.

This is one of the most hyped U.S factory launches in years, everything is built around making the people working there as comfortable as possible.

It'll be one the best places to work on the planet.
Be better if it wasn't in a 'right to work' state with a stagnant economy and crumbling public system and exploding public state debt. WI unions and membership is one of the weakest outside of the South.

This whole deal exacerbates all those issues in WI. Being right to work with a global extremely anti union company. This article also glosses the >=$2BILLION in public funds from incentives, subsidies, and tax breaks Wisconsin is silver plattering to Foxconn for this 'win' in US manufacturing, further straining WI's already tottering fiscal situation. Bit don't worry, they'll just blame and cut public services, salaries, and pensions again, because some corporation's bottom line matters more then those dirty struggling workers.

The Reuters article glossed over the WI incentives with a single sentence summary. This one has a better analysis.
Quote:
The deal represents a huge opportunity for Wisconsin as well as a significant risk - one that state lawmakers will have to weigh quickly as they consider whether to allow a subsidy package nearly 50 times bigger than any previous one.

Getting the the company to come to Wisconsin would take $1 billion to $3 billion in incentives paid over up to 15 years, sources said. At least parts of the package would be tied to job creation.

If the deal cost $1 billion and the company created 10,000 jobs, the government would spend $100,000 per job. And a $3 billion deal with that many jobs would cost $300,000 per job.
At $3 billion, the subsidies would total more than the combined yearly state funding used to operate the University of Wisconsin System and the state's prison system.
Foxconn WI Investment
 
#8 ·
Hm, seems like will be getting more expensive electronics just because it's made in USA. Not good imo...
 
#10 ·
More like 2 to 10 (>$200,000 investment from state, $20-100k salary), but that pays off over time (ie 2-10 years), plus the investment/jobs equation foregoes a lot of profitable externalities (development around the facility, profits from factory, potential tech park), but, yes, not a good way to invest debt.
 
#11 ·
that has to be insanely expensive vs in china.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

More like 2 to 10 (>$200,000 investment from state, $20-100k salary), but that pays off over time (ie 2-10 years), plus the investment/jobs equation foregoes a lot of profitable externalities (development around the facility, profits from factory, potential tech park), but, yes, not a good way to invest debt.
You're assuming that it won't be lured away by a state that offers even more tax breaks before it's paid itself off.

This is what happens when money is speech you can use to buy politicians.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK421 View Post

Hm, seems like will be getting more expensive electronics just because it's made in USA. Not good imo...
It does not immediately mean that. In many cases, the equipment and modern automation will at least massively dilute if not nullify the effect of more expensive labour. When they already have plants in many countries, there has to be a good reason for them to choose a specific location for manufacturing.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickfrock999 View Post

Won't need them.

With the power of unions and the backing of the White House itself, nobody is going to be killing themselves.

This is one of the most hyped U.S factory launches in years, everything is built around making the people working there as comfortable as possible.

It'll be one the best places to work on the planet.
Be better if it wasn't in a 'right to work' state with a stagnant economy and crumbling public system and exploding public state debt. WI unions and membership is one of the weakest outside of the South.

This whole deal exacerbates all those issues in WI. Being right to work with a global extremely anti union company. This article also glosses the >=$2BILLION in public funds from incentives, subsidies, and tax breaks Wisconsin is silver plattering to Foxconn for this 'win' in US manufacturing, further straining WI's already tottering fiscal situation. Bit don't worry, they'll just blame and cut public services, salaries, and pensions again, because some corporation's bottom line matters more then those dirty struggling workers.

The Reuters article glossed over the WI incentives with a single sentence summary. This one has a better analysis.
Quote:
The deal represents a huge opportunity for Wisconsin as well as a significant risk - one that state lawmakers will have to weigh quickly as they consider whether to allow a subsidy package nearly 50 times bigger than any previous one.

Getting the the company to come to Wisconsin would take $1 billion to $3 billion in incentives paid over up to 15 years, sources said. At least parts of the package would be tied to job creation.

If the deal cost $1 billion and the company created 10,000 jobs, the government would spend $100,000 per job. And a $3 billion deal with that many jobs would cost $300,000 per job.
At $3 billion, the subsidies would total more than the combined yearly state funding used to operate the University of Wisconsin System and the state's prison system.
Foxconn WI Investment
You forgot to mention that a lot of the jobs will be part time and thus employees won't get medical insurance and other benefits that full time employees will get. Thus this entire deal is only meant to enrich Foxconn and the 'politicians' who are getting bribed.
 
#15 ·
NYT article said HonHai aka. Foxconn already has a plant in Virginia with 1000 workers that builds Dell systems?

Any more info on that? Only server stuff? Also HP assembled there..?
 
#17 ·
Those of you getting excited over this don't understand business in the slightest. Let me break it down for you....

Quote:
First, let me step on the "13,000" jobs number itself. The article states "could" and "up to" as qualifiers on the number of jobs being referenced in this fluff piece. That number also is including all the temporary contractor work that is "created" for the building of the factory itself, jobs that go away when the site is complete. This is a very common tactic for larger companies to use when seeking heavy subsidization. There will be nowhere near 13,000 permanent jobs created by Foxconn in this facility, ever.

Almost secondary to the above is the fact that we are talking about a company that is replacing people with robots faster than really any other company. Foxconn just replaced 60,000 employees in China with a new fleet of automation just this year. Do you honestly expect them to keep paying for U.S.A. labor that is magnitudes more expensive than Chinese labor?

This is another Carrier Air Conditioning fluff piece that completely falls apart when given even the slightest bit of scrutiny. It should be pissing people off because the U.S.A. is about to sign over $3,000,000,000.00 to a for-profit company. Do people not understand how much money that is?

The general populations lack of understanding in business is part of the reason we have such an incredible wealth divide in this country. People are so naive to believe big business, or money in general, is out for their best interest. No one is willing to look at things with a critical eye anymore, just taking it at face value.
 
#18 ·
Great news, but I'm a skeptical butthole

Remember this?

Didn't take long to lay off 99% of the workers
lachen.gif
 
#19 ·
Wisconsin is on the list of getting it, and while I would love to see it show up here, I'd rather it went to a community that needs it a lot more. We're doing fine here in WI, plenty of jobs for the most part. IL in the Rockford area needs it BAD. I mean BAAAAD. Detroit area needs it. Other states with a low work force...needs it. Not us.
 
#20 ·
@PostalTwinkie, it's just the state of WI giving them the subsidies. So it comes out of an even smaller pool of people. It's like when states fall all over each other to give Musk Inc. huge subsidy packages like zero property taxes and $1/yr land lease rights to make a factory only to have that factory disappear as soon as the agreement with artificially low taxpayer funded rates disappear.

I also assume these are the same people who scream fiscal responsibility at the top of their lungs about social safety net when corporations are the real welfare queens by orders of magnitude.

You can see (some of) the biggest at Good Jobs First. They only track direct subsidies though, Walmart is the largest indirect subsidy receiver via food stamps and such by paying wages so low their employees are forced into those programs and then turn around and buy at Walmart anyways. Along with other people on social programs buying at Walmart. It's estimated they rake in $13-15Billion/yr on food stamps alone. That's 3-4% of their total revenue and equal to their net income. If Walmart were forced to pay a non-poverty wage, their business model would be unsustainable unless they actually raised prices and were forced to compete on a fair level instead of tax funded predatory pricing.

Edit: It also doesn't account for the MIC I would say.
 
#21 ·
Correct me if i am wrong, but in the article they state that this will be a LCD manufacturing plant. Now i don't know what kind of LCD's they will make (for consumer? small ones for smartphones or bigger ones for TV's or for a different market altogether?) but doesn't it sound weird to invest so much into a new lcd plant at this point ?

A lot of smartphones make the switch to (AM)OLED screens (even apple switches to am-oled panel for the iphone 8 ), the top tv's are all oled based and it is probably only a matter of a few years before oled panels make their way into other new consumer products (like pc monitors) . Why would they invest several billions into a dying technology like LCD at this point ?
And i didn't even know that foxcon has the knowhow to manufacture LCD panels.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

@PostalTwinkie, it's just the state of WI giving them the subsidies. So it comes out of an even smaller pool of people. It's like when states fall all over each other to give Musk Inc. huge subsidy packages like zero property taxes and $1/yr land lease rights to make a factory only to have that factory disappear as soon as the agreement with artificially low taxpayer funded rates disappear.

I also assume these are the same people who scream fiscal responsibility at the top of their lungs about social safety net when corporations are the real welfare queens by orders of magnitude.

You can see (some of) the biggest at Good Jobs First. They only track direct subsidies though, Walmart is the largest indirect subsidy receiver via food stamps and such by paying wages so low their employees are forced into those programs and then turn around and buy at Walmart anyways. Along with other people on social programs buying at Walmart. It's estimated they rake in $13-15Billion/yr on food stamps alone. That's 3-4% of their total revenue and equal to their net income. If Walmart were forced to pay a non-poverty wage, their business model would be unsustainable unless they actually raised prices and were forced to compete on a fair level instead of tax funded predatory pricing.

Edit: It also doesn't account for the MIC I would say.
The difference with Musk and Tesla, I assume you are talking about the Gigafactory, is that it is a $1 Billion tax incentive over a 10 year period, based on milestones they have to hit. Musk himself has been incredibly open about the fact that incentives and contracts should be awarded based on physical/real/substantive milestones.

When you look at what subsides Musk, and his companies, receive compared to Oil, Ford, GM, Dodge, Banking, etc, he is getting an incredibly small amount. All while basically attached to measurable goals that have to be met. I believe "Big Oil" receives in one Fiscal Quarter more government subsides than Tesla was given for the entire 10 year period on the Tesla factory.

Subsidization has to happen for society to progress and is a great thing when done right. We just need to be a lot more balanced in how we do it.
 
#23 ·
Wait, haven't tech elites been telling us that this kind of manufacturing isn't possible in the US anymore?

Seeing different sources claim up to 15,000 available positions. The success of this is going to depend on whether the LCD panels produced can be sold at a high enough margin to pay the higher labor costs and turn a profit as well. Best of luck.

Foxconn itself isn't going through with this empty handed either: the 'incentive package' contemplated as part of the Foxconn deal will total $3 billion over 15 years, including $1.5 billion in state income tax credits for job creation; up to $1.35 billion in state income tax credits for capital investment and up to $150 million for the sales and use tax exemption. In other words, just over $230,000 for each new job that Foxconn creates.

Quite the win-win situation.
 
#24 ·
give tax Rebate so foreign companies setup manufacturing.

people get jobs

people get paid. IRB tax them here.

When People get paid = got money = go spending = tax them again here, tax other industry too because increase spending = increase sales = increase tax.

Just as planned.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

The difference with Musk and Tesla, I assume you are talking about the Gigafactory, is that it is a $1 Billion tax incentive over a 10 year period, based on milestones they have to hit. Musk himself has been incredibly open about the fact that incentives and contracts should be awarded based on physical/real/substantive milestones.

When you look at what subsides Musk, and his companies, receive compared to Oil, Ford, GM, Dodge, Banking, etc, he is getting an incredibly small amount. All while basically attached to measurable goals that have to be met. I believe "Big Oil" receives in one Fiscal Quarter more government subsides than Tesla was given for the entire 10 year period on the Tesla factory.

Subsidization has to happen for society to progress and is a great thing when done right. We just need to be a lot more balanced in how we do it.
It's true to an extent, I suppose your ending sentence covers that. The issue is that if these enterprises are that risky, the private industry shouldn't be involved or should be working extremely closely with governments which can more easily absorb the long term costs and potential losses of any massive project. There's also huge issues of QC and safety in private industry vs government run operations.

SpaceX has had as many accidents since its inception just over 10 years ago as NASA has had in 60 years. Luckily none of the SpaceX accidents resulted in casualties, but NASA and other private companies had to write off billions in payload value and infrastructure damage while SpaceX got off with the loss of a rocket and slightly cheaper NASA launch missions. I would rather real aerospace companies that work hand in hand with the government like ULA controlled in partnership by Lockheed and Boeing took the mantle and have had only two minor malfunctions that resulted in no damage and a single loss of property.

I don't dislike the ideas per se, some of them are engineering nightmares and extremely uneconomical (re: Hyperloop). Others are rich people toys funded by subsidies, like Tesla and SolarCity. If they need the subsidies that bad, there should be more involvement by the gov't. There's a reason DARPA exists, which manages the programs they give grants out for and closely monitor them (they do non-defense related programs as well.) There's a reason the Federal Government took over GM and Chrysler and fired their whole management team during the time they held controlling interest of the companies back in 2009. If the majority of your company's revenue is based solely on government subsidies, the government should have a seat and the company is bottom line answerable to the taxpayers that are floating an otherwise uncompetitive business.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Those of you getting excited over this don't understand business in the slightest.

This is another Carrier Air Conditioning fluff piece that completely falls apart when given even the slightest bit of scrutiny. It should be pissing people off because the U.S.A. is about to sign over $3,000,000,000.00 to a for-profit company. Do people not understand how much money that is?

The general populations lack of understanding in business is part of the reason we have such an incredible wealth divide in this country. People are so naive to believe big business, or money in general, is out for their best interest. No one is willing to look at things with a critical eye anymore, just taking it at face value.
$3B over 15 years worth of kickback is pennies compared to what you guys spend on military hardware.

let's also not forget Softbank vowed to inject $50B into 'Murica after the talks of Foxconn opening shop Stateside.

I'd say it's a fantastic deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliquis View Post

Correct me if i am wrong, but in the article they state that this will be a LCD manufacturing plant. Now i don't know what kind of LCD's they will make (for consumer? small ones for smartphones or bigger ones for TV's or for a different market altogether?) but doesn't it sound weird to invest so much into a new lcd plant at this point ?

A lot of smartphones make the switch to (AM)OLED screens (even apple switches to am-oled panel for the iphone 8 ), the top tv's are all oled based and it is probably only a matter of a few years before oled panels make their way into other new consumer products (like pc monitors) . Why would they invest several billions into a dying technology like LCD at this point ?
And i didn't even know that foxcon has the knowhow to manufacture LCD panels.
where do you think the LCD screen on your ipad comes from?

OLED are still LG's game and a bit from Samsung and Sony.

Very few Foxconn-built products have OLED. A limited run Dell monitor, an alienware laptop and Lenovo laptop and the upcoming flagship iPhone, that's it AFAIK.

I'm sure by the time this plant opens, they will also be pushing out OLED if cost permits it.
 
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