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AMD X399 (Socket TR4) VRM thread

67K views 479 replies 62 participants last post by  Turfboy 
#1 ·
This thread is all about discussing the VRMs on X399 motherboards.

Info we've got so far:

ASRock X399 Taichiasrockfatal1tyx399taig6spv.pngcoolpc-x399-taichi-20nvkxb.jpg8+3_phases__________________
IR35201 controller(s)
8x IR3555 (for VDDCR_CPU)
3x IR3555 (for VDDCR_SOC)
10x 680µF (for VDDCR_CPU)
4x 680µF (for VDDCR_SOC)
11x 60A inductors
-> info by Sin via TweakTown
ASRock X399 Professional Gamingasrockfatal1tyx399pro4ks85.pngdesign-08-18xjnm.jpg8+3 phases
IR35201 controller(s)
8x IR3555 (for VDDCR_CPU)
3x IR3555 (for VDDCR_SOC)
10x 680µF (for VDDCR_CPU)
4x 680µF (for VDDCR_SOC)
11x 60A inductors
-> info by chew*
ASUS Prime X399-Apnrvgt23sc61tmim_sett30pwa.jpgasus-prime-x399-a-1733xi6.jpg8+3 phases
ASP1405 controller(s)
8x IR3555 (for VDDCR_CPU)
3x CSD97374M (for VDDCR_SOC)
12x 470µF (for VDDCR_CPU)
-> info by XFastest
ASUS ROG Strix X399-E Gamingstrixyuaxv.pngasusryj8g.png8+3 phases
ASUS ROG Zenith Extremezenithlszzy.pngcoolpc-x399-zenith-ex0vuzd.jpg8+3 phases
ASP1405 controller(s)
8x IR3555 (for VDDCR_CPU)
3x CSD97374M (for VDDCR_SOC)
12x 470µF (for VDDCR_CPU)
-> info by The Stilt
Gigabyte Aorus X399 Gaming 7gigabyteaorusx399gamivys7o.pngcoolpc_x399g7-31ktscg.jpg8+2 phases
IR32501 controller(s)
8x IR3556 (for VDDCR_CPU)
2x IR3556 (for VDDCR_SOC)
10x FP1007R3-R15-R inductors
-> info by Sin (via TweakTown) and XFastest
Gigabyte X399 Designare EX2017090415121698_big01sbd.png8385_20_gigabyte-x399k8j9f.jpg8+2 phases
IR32501 controller(s)
8x IR3556 (for VDDCR_CPU)
2x IR3556 (for VDDCR_SOC)
10x FP1007R3-R15-R inductors
->info by Sin via TweakTown]
MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon ACmsi4vamo.pngdesign-08-1wbu1o.jpg10+3 phases
IR35201 controller
5x IR3599 (for VDDCR_CPU)
10x IR3555 (for VDDCR_CPU)
3x IR3555 (for VDDCR_SOC)
16x 330µF (for VDDCR_CPU)
6x 330µF (for VDDCR_SOC)
-> info by Sin and coolpc TW

VRM list @hardwareluxx: LGA TR4 Mainboard VRM Liste

Reviews with VRM info:

 
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16
#2 ·
Your posts are so much more organized
smile.gif


My x299 thread looks very hard to navigate in comparison , I have to work on that later
tongue.gif


July 30 edit:
I think that we can glean some basic info off the marketing material

Asrock "SPS" = ISL99227 product page altered to IR3555
Taichi photos up on Newegg https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157785
Fatal1ty Pro Gaming https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157784

ASUS - "The board uses the same power solution as the Rampage VI Extreme " per ASUS
on Newegg https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119003
* ROG Strix X399-E announced

Gigabyte supposedly will be using 8 phase IR3553 per Gamers Nexus
Gaming 7 up on Newegg https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145030
MSI - nothing to note
Newegg photos up https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144079

July 30 edit: These are 180W TDP CPUs
 
#3 ·
Thanks! But handle lots of information in one post in this forum is quite hard IMO.
If there's so much information like in the X299 thread there isn't much of a chance to keep them looking organized, even this post looked ways better in the preview than now.
biggrin.gif
 
#6 ·
Why should the FETs heat up significantly more due to the distance between them and the power plugs?
The traces and landings might get a little bit hotter but that shouldn't affect the VRM FETs a lot IMHO.

Edit: Btw, is anybody able to help me out with the different VCCs for TR4? Can't find any offical stuff from AMD about that.
But MSI is using a IR35201 again so most likely it'll be SVI2-based like AM4 with one CPU VCC and one SoC VCC. On lots of boards I do also see three more buck converter phases besides those under the large heatsink and the two DRAM converters (e.g. ASUS Zenith and MSI Gaming Pro Carbon). These could be the SoC phases. Or what do you guys think?
 
#7 ·
Wonder how much the zenith extreme in dollary doo's will be
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by br0da View Post

Why should the FETs heat up significantly more due to the distance between them and the power plugs?
The traces and landings might get a little bit hotter but that shouldn't affect the VRM FETs a lot IMHO.
It will lead to issues under extreme scenarios.

Remember, threadripper is essentially epyc, if/when a 32-core part comes out, the power requirements under extreme overclocks will be immerse. Putting the power plugs so far is asking for trouble.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

It will lead to issues under extreme scenarios.

Remember, threadripper is essentially epyc, if/when a 32-core part comes out, the power requirements under extreme overclocks will be immerse. Putting the power plugs so far is asking for trouble.
It won't cause any issues even if your CPU consumes 2x the rated TDP and if the VRM had efficiency of 80%. 450W / 12 = 37.5A.

X399 boards cannot support 4MCM EPYCs as they're only wired for four memory channels (two dies / 2MCM).
 
#10 ·
Has anyone seen the MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon?

The heatisinks look like they have learned from X299, although X399 probably won't have much more than say, 2.1x the power draw of a Ryzen 8 core at equal clocks.

By contrast, note the insane power draw of Skylake E versus Kaby Lake.



Of course note that to get 4.7 GHz, on X299, the 10 core has to apply 100 mV more voltage just to get the same clock.

Let's look at the new board. https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X399-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC.html#productFeature-section

Note the 2 8-pin CPU power cables and the CPU heatsink. Also note that 6 pin PCIe power cable right above the first PCIe slot - that's extra power for if you run many GPUs.



Well good on MSI for learning from X299, although hopefully Threadripper will be more efficient. The tall VRM heatsink might be an issue for tower coolers, but it is clearly needed. The below image is just marketing, but I have no doubt that the heatsink is as tall as a memory DIMM:



The X370 XPower was a letdown, but this might be a worthy board. I actually like the look of this board - I'm wondering if there will be an X399 Godlike. Good on MSI though for putting what looks like a decent heatsink on.

All that is left is to follow through with a good BIOS and rapid AGESA updates.\

Fun observation: Asus is the only company that moved their socket a bit lower so that the mounting hole doesn't mean losing a phase. Unfortunately, Asus is also the company that is only giving us 8 phases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

It won't cause any issues even if your CPU consumes 2x the rated TDP and if the VRM had efficiency of 80%. 450W / 12 = 37.5A.

X399 boards cannot support 4MCM EPYCs as they're only wired for four memory channels (two dies / 2MCM).
That's the unfortunate part IMO. I think there are a lot of people, were it possible to get a 4 GHz @ 32 core OC. That would truly be "Epyc". Maybe if AMD offereed it partly gimped - 32 cores, but with 4 rather than 8 channels and still 64 rather than 128 PCie lanes.

But yeah to use all of Epyc, we would be looking at a 128 PCIe lane, 8 channel board. Tons of traces underneath.

Hmm ... assuming 10 phases @ 60A per phase, that should be adequate. 840W, assuming 1.4V for Threadripper.

@The Stilt, is there any reason to doubt that the 16 core TR won't be more than say, 2.1x that of 8 core Ryzen,if both are at the same clock? It's just 2 Zeppelin dies and the IO. Certainly it won't be as crazy as that 7900X. I have serious doubts about how far the 18 core Intel will go. Sure it is still the "money not object" CPU, but it's got limits too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

It will lead to issues under extreme scenarios.

Remember, threadripper is essentially epyc, if/when a 32-core part comes out, the power requirements under extreme overclocks will be immerse. Putting the power plugs so far is asking for trouble.
What we really need is a 24 phase XL ATX board. 24x Fairchild FDMF5823DC 55A or 24x Intersil ISL99227 60A should do the job. Pair with a 60A choke in both cases.



Half the mosfets are underneath the board. That would in theory leave us with 1320A for the 55A and 1440A for the 60A Mosfet.

With such a big socket and 8 DIMM slots, board space is at a premium. We may need 12 or more PCB layers too.

The end result is a board that is 2 PCIe slots longer. Another MSI example - the Z87 XPower:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7209/MSI%20Z87%20XPower%20-%20Top.png



I'm wondering if 345.4mm x 330 mm (same as eATX) might be needed for the boards that need extra room. Certainly, it would offer the opportunity for more DIMMs - if Epyc were released on 1 socket, we'd want 16 DIMMs.

Maybe we'd also want 2 PCIe 8 pin set aside for CPU power as well. So 2 CPU power + 2 PCIe power connectors to CPU.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

That picture is pretty awesome to take a look at the VRMs.
smile.gif

I'd interpret the design like that:

In detail I'd expect the powIRstages to be IR3555 parts, the IR35201 running in 5+X mode and five more IR3599 on the backside.

Besides MSI the other manufacturers have their product pages online by now:

ASRock Fatil1ty X399 Professional Gaming
ASRock X399 Taichi
-> 8x IR3555, most likely driven by one IR35201 running in 8+0 mode for CPU VCC.

Gigabyte X399 Aorus Gaming 7
Again 8 phases equipped with powIRstages, driven by a IR controller. Seems to only have two Soc phases.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Gigabyte supposedly will be using 8 phase IR3553 per Gamers Nexus
On the picture on their website you can see that the powIRstages used aren't IR3553 packages.
 
#12 ·
Since Zenith has the same power delivery with the K7 (8 phases), do you believe the latter being a good option for overclocking, or better buy the MSI with the 13 phases?
However the Zenith & Prime are coming with heatpipes and fan under the top cover to cool the VRMs. :/
But does the Zenith worth the +55% pricetag over the MSI?
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fediuld View Post

Since Zenith has the same power delivery with the K7 (8 phases), do you believe the latter being a good option for overclocking, or better buy the MSI with the 13 phases?
MSI's 13 phases aren't 13 VCore phases for real.
Just 10 of them seem to be for VCore, also they are driven by a IR35201 so it's just 5 real phases doubled up to 10 in total.
Still ten phases with IR3555 / IR3556 parts would be capable of more theoretical output current than 8 pahses with IR3555 but again the heatsink might have a huge impact on the actual maximum power output.

So at the moment it's very hard to tell what design is worth its money.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by br0da View Post

MSI's 13 phases aren't 13 VCore phases for real.
Just 10 of them seem to be for VCore, also they are driven by a IR35201 so it's just 5 real phases doubled up to 10 in total.
Still ten phases with IR3555 / IR3556 parts would be capable of more theoretical output current than 8 pahses with IR3555 but again the heatsink might have a huge impact on the actual maximum power output.

So at the moment it's very hard to tell what design is worth its money.
Given the design of the cooler, surely we would be able to plug a small 60mm fan there to provide direct cooling yes?
Personally I do like the Carbon. Is ~$240/£180 cheaper in here UK compared to the Zenith ($445/£340 vs $683/£520) while it doesn't shy off the main specs.

And MSI has showed both in X370 and X299 platforms has very good product with great performance overall.

What's your thought?

(had the MSI X79 GD45, the cheapest of them all, and was clocking the 4820K @ 5Ghz without sweat, and the 4930K @ 4.6Ghz, what a great board it was)
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fediuld View Post

Given the design of the cooler, surely we would be able to plug a small 60mm fan there to provide direct cooling yes?
Yeah it looks like it would be possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fediuld View Post

And MSI has showed both in X370 and X299 platforms has very good product with great performance overall.
Oh they've got some X299 black sheeps and the X370 XPower has also got its downsides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fediuld View Post

What's your thought?
I wouldn't become an early adopter at the moment.
tongue.gif

But seriously: I'd love to help you but right now I can't tell if you'd regret buying the MSI board, even guessing about that is hard.
frown.gif
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by br0da View Post

Yeah it looks like it would be possible.
Oh they've got some X299 black sheeps and the X370 XPower has also got its downsides.
I wouldn't become an early adopter at the moment.
tongue.gif

But seriously: I'd love to help you but right now I can't tell if you'd regret buying the MSI board, even guessing about that is hard.
frown.gif
Cheers
smile.gif
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

gigabyte's X399 gaming 7 uses IR3556,IR35201, and the same 76A chokes as X299
Thanks for the info!
smile.gif
 
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