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Fractal Design HF-14: what is the point?

17K views 16 replies 5 participants last post by  doyll 
#1 ·
So I saw that the Fractal Design HP-14 PWM does well but the pricing is close to the other top fans and the packaging is subpar.

However, the airflow oriented HF-14 is not very good even in low restriction testing.

dvtests , zero restriction
HF-14: 109m3/h at 990RPM (~ 64CFM)
HF-14: 135m3/h at 1200RPM (~79CFM)
HP-14: 58m3/h at 870RPM (~34CFM)
http://www.dvtests.com/fractal-design-venturi-hf-14-and-hp-14-pwm-test-and-review/

HF-12 at ~1400 RPM = ~80CFM
HP-14 at ~1200 RPM = ~60CFM
http://glob3trotters.com/portfolio/fractal-design-120-140-mm-fan-round-up-venturi-hphf-dynamic-gp-1214-silent-series-r3/

HP-14 results doing well http://thermalbench.com/2016/03/12/fractal-design-venturi-hp-14-140mm-fan/3/

HP vs HF (zero restriction) http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole/1654-recensione-fractal-venturi-serie-hf-e-hp.html?start=6


test via tube method (i.e. no restriction)
HP14 CFM at 30dB = 29.2CFM
HF-14 CFM at 30dB = 27.3CFM
https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6622/7/tested-71-case-fans-of-140-mm-round-up-big-fans-test-results-the-most-efficient-case-fans


(dB VS CFM)
http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/coolers/vent_140_fractal_zalman.shtml

HP14 tonality

HF14 tonality


HP14 doing well on a Megahalems
http://www.conseil-config.com/2015/test-fractal-design-dynamic-venturi/

HP-14 :100,41 m3/h @ 1000RPM (43dB)
HF-14 : ???
GP-14 : 116,21 m3/h @ 1000RPM (41dB)
R3 140mm: 95,32 m3/h @ 1000RPM (44dB)
(Noctua iPPC 2000: 82,08m3/h @ 1000RPM (43dB))
https://www.overclockers.ua/cooler/fractal-design-noctua-120mm-140mm/all/

At least 3 sources for inferior performance for the HF-14 vs their own HP-14
 
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#2 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

So I saw that the Fractal Design HP-14 PWM does well but the pricing is close to the other top fans and the packaging is subpar.

However, the airflow oriented HF-14 is not very good even in low restriction testing.

dvtests , zero restriction
HF-14: 109m3/h at 990RPM (~ 64CFM)
HF-14: 135m3/h at 1200RPM (~79CFM)
HP-14: 58m3/h at 870RPM (~34CFM)
http://www.dvtests.com/fractal-design-venturi-hf-14-and-hp-14-pwm-test-and-review/

HF-12 at ~1400 RPM = ~80CFM
HP-14 at ~1200 RPM = ~60CFM
http://glob3trotters.com/portfolio/fractal-design-120-140-mm-fan-round-up-venturi-hphf-dynamic-gp-1214-silent-series-r3/

HP-14 results doing well http://thermalbench.com/2016/03/12/fractal-design-venturi-hp-14-140mm-fan/3/

HP vs HF (zero restriction) http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole/1654-recensione-fractal-venturi-serie-hf-e-hp.html?start=6


test via tube method (i.e. no restriction)
HP14 CFM at 30dB = 29.2CFM
HF-14 CFM at 30dB = 27.3CFM
https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6622/7/tested-71-case-fans-of-140-mm-round-up-big-fans-test-results-the-most-efficient-case-fans


(dB VS CFM)
http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/coolers/vent_140_fractal_zalman.shtml

HP14 tonality

HF14 tonality


HP14 doing well on a Megahalems
http://www.conseil-config.com/2015/test-fractal-design-dynamic-venturi/

HP-14 :100,41 m3/h @ 1000RPM (43dB)
HF-14 : ???
GP-14 : 116,21 m3/h @ 1000RPM (41dB)
R3 140mm: 95,32 m3/h @ 1000RPM (44dB)
(Noctua iPPC 2000: 82,08m3/h @ 1000RPM (43dB))
https://www.overclockers.ua/cooler/fractal-design-noctua-120mm-140mm/all/

At least 3 sources for inferior performance for the HF-14 vs their own HP-14
Free airflow data doesn't mean much. Performance against resistance to airflow gives us a much better idea of how fans will perform in applications like we use them. Even PQ curves are usually only at full speed so still limited.
Maybe these P/Q curve graph from CoolingTechnique will help.


 
#3 ·
Why be HF-14 specific? I would go as far as "Fractal Design Fans: What's the Point?". Fractal makes some of the best cases on the market at their given price points. Arguably the best - I am not saying they are the best, but valid arguments can certainly be made for it. But their fans run from awful at worst to mediocre at best. So, in a world that already has three times the fans on the market that it needs, and with Fractal bringing nothing new to the table, what's the point?
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Why be HF-14 specific? I would go as far as "Fractal Design Fans: What's the Point?". Fractal makes some of the best cases on the market at their given price points. Arguably the best - I am not saying they are the best, but valid arguments can certainly be made for it. But their fans run from awful at worst to mediocre at best. So, in a world that already has three times the fans on the market that it needs, and with Fractal bringing nothing new to the table, what's the point?
Agree!
thumb.gif

The only half decent Fractal Design fan is the HP and even it only beats 2 out of 9 fans tested in same group tested by Thermalbench.. and barely bests Corsail SP as well. Definitely a 'mediocre' fan.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Agree!
thumb.gif

The only half decent Fractal Design fan is the HP and even it only beats 2 out of 9 fans tested in same group tested by Thermalbench.. and barely bests Corsail SP as well. Definitely a 'mediocre' fan.
Actually.....the cost of Fractal cases is higher than their list price in most cases. A Define R5 runs ~$120, and is a great case at that cost.....until you factor in that you will need o spend at least $30 additional for intake fans should you actually want airflow in it. But, it is still one of the best $150 cases around.
wink.gif
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Actually.....the cost of Fractal cases is higher than their list price in most cases. A Define R5 runs ~$120, and is a great case at that cost.....until you factor in that you will need o spend at least $30 additional for intake fans should you actually want airflow in it. But, it is still one of the best $150 cases around.
wink.gif
Agree!
thumb.gif

I was agreening with you mate,
helpinghand.gif


To clarify, the stock case fans are wimpy at best. Phanteks makes as good if not better case, but not sure how good the new (year old) MP like impeller case fans Phanteks is supplying with cases. I have noticed some of their case specifications no longer say the case fans are PH-F140SP, but they don't say what fans are now being used or what their specifications are. Very strange for a company who has been supplying very nice cases, fans, coolers and now moving into H2O components to not tell us, the customer, what their case fan model and specifications are.
rolleyes.gif
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Actually.....the cost of Fractal cases is higher than their list price in most cases. A Define R5 runs ~$120, and is a great case at that cost.....until you factor in that you will need o spend at least $30 additional for intake fans should you actually want airflow in it. But, it is still one of the best $150 cases around.
wink.gif
Most people are buying cases without 5.25" bays these days.

Fractal Design Define C for example, does alright when you consider "silent" alternatives such as the Phanteks Eclipse P400S (terrible flow), Corsair 400Q, and other such cases. Then there's also cases such as the NZXT S340 (low flow similar to P400S) & In Win 303 (no fans)

Most are using sleeve bearing or rifle bearing fans.

Anyhow , the HF-12 isn't as bad as the HF-14 in terms of the static pressure vs CFM.

I doubt anyone actually buys the R3 / GP fans.

The reason I made this thread is I put in a suggestion for lower flow restriction & better fan for the Fractal Design Define R6. I wanted to find out just how bad GP14 was vs HF14 , as I suggested they put in two HP-14 at the front.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

The reason I made this thread is I put in a suggestion for lower flow restriction & better fan for the Fractal Design Define R6. I wanted to find out just how bad GP14 was vs HF14 , as I suggested they put in two HP-14 at the front.
I would suggest they contract with Phanteks and put a pair of F140MP in the front.
wink.gif
 
#9 ·
https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6622/7/tested-71-case-fans-of-140-mm-round-up-big-fans-test-results-the-most-efficient-case-fans

Fractal's HP14 looks on par with Phanteks SP at least & if they improve on the HP-14 in terms of manufacturing volume and PWM curve for a revision it could be decent for high restrictions

On this page hwinfo claims to test on a rad (NZXT Kraken X41 with ~22FPI , 36mm thick) , with these results at 12V and 7V ... dB measured at 10cm is ridiculous though , not sure why they measured at 10cm
Thermalright TY-143 SQ @2500RPM = 86.3CFM with 57.3dB (50.2CFM@7V/44.4dB) <-- for reference
Silverstone FHP141 @ 2000RPM = 74CFM with 58.4dB (43.2CFM@7V/43.8dB) <-- for reference
Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-2000 IP67 @2000RPM = 59.7CFM with 50.9dB (33.1CFM @7V/36.9dB) <-- for reference
Corsair ML140 Pro @2000RPM = 58.6CFM with 53.6dB (37.3CFM @7V/42.5dB) <--- not amazing...
NB PK-3 @ 1700RPM = 49CFM with 47dB (30.3CFM @7V/38.2dB) <-- loud even at 7V
NB eloop 1400rpm PWM @ 1400RPM = 47.8CFM with 43.9dB (27.5CFM @7V/31.9dB)
Noctua NF-P14S Redux @ 1500rpm = 47.6CFM with 48.8dB (29.6CFM @7V / 36.7dB)
Gelid Silent Pro 14 @ 1500RPM = 46CFM with 45.7dB (25CFM @7V/32.1dB)
Be Quiet silent Wings 3 140mm PWM high speed @1600RPM= 45CFM with 42.9dB (25.2CFM@7V/29.2dB)
Noctua NF-A14 PWM @ 1500rpm = 44.3 CFM with 44.6dB (25.7CFM @7V /31.2dB)
Enermax TB Silence PWM @ 1200RPM = 41.3CFM with 44.8dB (10.5CFM@7V/23.8dB)
Fractal HF-14 @ 1200RPM = 40.8CFM with 41.5dB (24.7CFM @7V/30.4dB) <--- amazingly HF-14 does okay on AIO... but in terms of unimpeded airflow is less than Phanteks at <12V
Scythe Slipstream 140XT PWM @1300RPM= 40.6CFM with 43.9dB (16.8CFM@7V/26.6dB)
Phanteks PH-F140MP @ 1600RPM = 39.7CFM with 40.7dB (23.8CFM @7V / 27.2dB)
NB eloop 1200rpm PWM @ 1200RPM = 39.7CFM with 39.3dB (23.3 CFM @7V/26.2dB)
Fractal HP-14 @ 1500RPM = 38.5CFM with 40dB (5.8CFM @7V/19.6dB)
NB PK-PS = 37.8CFM with 41.9dB (14.7CFM @ 7V/25.8dB)
Thermalright TY-147A SQ @ 1300RPM =41.1CFM with 37.5dB (22.4CFM @7V/25dB) <--- roughly double CFM or run @7V for lower noise level
Thermalright TY-147B @1300RPM = 40.8CFM with 35.5dB (23.8CFM @7V/24dB)
Thermalright TY-141 SQ @1300RPM = 39.7CFM with 39.9dB (21.7CFM @7V/27.7dB)
Phanteks PH-F140XP @1200= 37.8CFM with 40dB (23.8CFM @7v / 27.7dB)
Noctua NF-P14S Redux PWM 1200rpm = 37.3CFM with 42.9dB (21.5CFM @7V /30.4dB)
Cryorig XT140 @ 1300RPM= 37.1CFM with 43.8dB (22.6CFM @7V/34.2dB)
Scythe Slipstream 140XT @1200RPM=37.1CFM with 42.6dB (22.6CFM @7V/30.3dB)
Deepcool GF140 @1200RPM = 35CFM with 43.7dB (21CFM @7V/31.3dB)
Noctua NF-A14 FLX @ 1200RPM = 35CFM with 38.5dB (18.7 CFM @7V/23.7dB)
Aerocool dead silence @1000RPM= 32.2CFM with 34.4dB (20.5CFM @7V/24.4dB) <--- the review states 1000RPM but there's supposedly 1500RPM version
Corsair SP140 LED @ 1440RPM=31.7CFM with 42.7dB (19.1CFM @7V/32.7dB)
NB PK-2 @1200RPM= 30.1CFM with 36.2dB (18CFM @7V/24.9dB)
BeQuiet SW2 PWM @1000RPM= 28.9CFM with 35.2dB
Be Quiet Pure Wings 2 @1000RPM = 27.1CFM with 32.2dB
Fractal Silent series R3 @1000RPM= 26.6CFM with 37.1dB
Be Quiet SilentWings 3 @1000RPM=26.1CFM with 28.3dB
BeQuiet Silent Wings 2 (nonPWM) @1000RPM= 25CFM with 30dB
Fractal X2 GP14 @1000RPM = 25CFM with 30dB
Fractal GP-14 @ 1000RPM = 22.4CFM with 28.1dB <--- what R5 case comes with...

...
hwinfo graphing seems to be one dimensional, they don't use dB vs CFM or even dB overlay on CFM...
I'm amazed that the HF pushes more air than the HP-14 according to them (at 12V)

* Thermalbench uses MCR140QP with ~12FPI , with less restriction than hwinfo's 22FPI AIO

Connecting the dots is hard to draw conclusions from / sort of misleading with only 12V and 7V data , missing 9V and 5V ... (partial)

HF-14 labeled , adjusted axis


AFAIK from 10cm to 1m is -20dB , so the axis would just be shifted 20dB by the Inverse Square law

* From ehume's review of fans such as the Pure Wings 2 140mm on a filter : 60CFM with 20dB@1m , NF-A14 FLX providing 71CFM with 23dB @ 1m, and Noctua 140mm redux 1200RPM providing 71CFM with 26.5dB@1m suggests the AIO radiator roughly halves flow vs a filter with the GP-14 reduced by more than that since it drops from 57CFM with 17dB@1m to about 22CFM per the hwinfo review

* Ehume's result on a 30 FPI rad of 30mm thickness was much more favorable for all fans involved: TY-143 SQ = 93CFM, NF-A14 2000RPM IPPC = 70CFM, TY-147SQ &TY-141 SQ = 49CFM , NF-A14 PWM = 53CFM
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Fractal makes some of the best cases on the market at their given price points. Arguably the best - I am not saying they are the best, but valid arguments can certainly be made for it.
I wouldn't say the best. The front snap on panel and door can rattle a bit, at certain fan rpm.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I wouldn't say the best. The front snap on panel and door can rattle a bit, at certain fan rpm.
What part of ' Arguably' in ciarlatanos's saying 'Arguably the best' don't you understand?
Or are you arguing with him because he said arguably?
biggrin.gif
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveNoX View Post

2x HP-14 for front intake on Define R5 (no window) works? or should I go for flow version HF-14 ?
Do you want variable voltage 1200ron or PWM 1500rpm fans. Personally I would go with the PWM because it has higher CFM and static pressure rating (16.2mm H2O vs 1.31mm H2O and 58.1cfm vs 68.1cfm).
 
#15 ·
I found that HP-14 has the voltage window between 8 and 12 volts, basically it doesn't start even at 7 volts, so it needs at least 9 volts to actually move something. Pretty sure the included fan controller on Define R5 will run them at full speed which is not ideal.

Also found out that high pressure fans are good for front intake only if they are placed outside of dust filters (like on rads, the rads are replaced with dust filters).
Front panel -> High Pressure fan -> dust filter
Front panel -> dust filter -> Air Flow fan

https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6622/6/tested-71-case-fans-of-140-mm-round-up-big-fans-test-results-the-mostnsilentncasefans
Fractal HP-14 @ 1500RPM = 38.5CFM with 40dB (5.8CFM @7V/19.6dB)
No idea how they managed to start it at 7V, but it actually moved 5 CFM (FIVE CFM). First I thought it was a typo.

Here it starts at 8V watch?v=yzIIWAbA_jA
 
#16 ·
Per thermalbench it starts ramping up at 50% PWM at ~ 400RPM so if 7V is about 500RPM it is possible

From that review, at 30dB limit

 
#17 ·
HardwareInfo fan airflow testing is rather puzzling because the use a 2 meter ong 12 cm tube with straws in it as an "air straightener" and fans mounted to pull air through the tube. The puzzling part is testing both 120mm and 140mm fans on same 120mm tube .. so not only are the straws creating some resistance to both 120mm and 140mm fans, but mounting 140mm fans on a 120mm tube would severely restrict their 'free airflow' potential compared to 120mm fans on 120mm tube.

Creating a static pressure test fixture is not hard at all, but a digital manometer with accuracy to 0.1mm is not cheap.
 
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