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[GamersNexus] Noctua Fan Investigation & the Internet Outrage Engine

8K views 70 replies 42 participants last post by  BoredErica 
#1 ·
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Quote:
This whole debacle started off with good intentions: A user reported product-level concerns that prompted further investigation, as it's always possible that media samples either don't exhibit issues or are limited in quantity. This is good, particularly when the reporting is done with the consideration that there's always room for a one-off defect, user error, shipping damage, or some other one-time event; unfortunately, like most curiosities and slight offenses posted on the internet, the trouble cascaded out of control until people were threatening to stop buying Noctua ever again. It's an interesting, insane flip that internet outrage culture causes: in the blink of an eye, we go from, "I trust this product and have liked it for years, have recommended it, and presently use it for critical systems" to "I'm never buying this again, I can't believe they did this, and I'll cost them so many sales they won't believe it." That brief injection of anger satisfies the itch to hoist someone to the gallows - this time, it was Noctua.

People are binary in this way, if our CPU and GPU coverage has taught us anything. There's little room in internet comments for a saner middle-ground between raving praise and seething rage. Brand loyalty rules over thought, and the last week demonstrated how impossibly high standards and unrepentent loyalty turn a small fault into a warfront.

We can't speak for every single Noctua fan that came off the line, but we can speak for our sample size - and it is a decent sample size, all things considered. It's not like we're a validation house that was contracted to test hundreds of these, after all. Between our eight presently tested samples, we cannot see any meaningful difference using our measurements. Visible differences, yes, but that's about it. This sample size includes fans from the original Reddit post, sent by OP for t esting. Noctua might deserve a bop on the nose for the color change, though that's an awfully small thing to boycott over - pigment and plastic coloring is going to change by region. It's difficult to color match cross-region, and this looks like an instance where Noctua either didn't see the issue, didn't think it was an issue, or didn't have time to respond to the issue. And "issue," all things considered, is a heavy word for "beige" vs. "slightly more beige."
We can all rest easy knowing our savior Noctua hasn't betrayed us.
 
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#2 ·
If it's true the stuff from the Reddit user was just placebo that that is just a modern day example of how crazily fallible our minds are.

Speaking of brand loyalty, I still see many comments in the video going on about how Noctua > everything else. And where do those beliefs come from... only anecdotal evidence?

To be fair, if somebody is going for the Noctua look, having fans being off color IS annoying.
 
#4 ·
What if the reddit user bought a fake Noctua?
tongue.gif


I have 3x NF-A14 PWM from Taiwan by the way. They're not totally silent at 1500RPM , so Noctuas are sometimes overrated on the noise front (GN cites 44dB at 1400RPM).

I'd be really annoyed if I had different colored ones , inaccurate (or less accurate) surface microstructures, or fainter stepped inlet features on a $30 MSRP fan...

GamersNexus is wrong: if it were a run-of-the-mill $15 fan that didn't have colors impossible to match with anything, people wouldn't complain so much. Hopefully QC is tightened.
 
#5 ·
Redditors blowing things out of proportion? Color me unsurprised.
laughingsmiley.gif
 
#7 ·
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Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

It really says it all. I have to wonder if people even now that Noctua has a better line of fans??
New A series aren't out yet... right now the debate going on in watercooling subsection here is SW3 vs ML140 for example, with nobody even mentioning Noctua. But when the A series do come out I'd be very interested in Noctua again.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

New A series aren't out yet... right now the debate going on in watercooling subsection here is SW3 vs ML140 for example, with nobody even mentioning Noctua. But when the A series do come out I'd be very interested in Noctua again.
Wow, that's interesting.

Below are the ML series



and



In order to get the noise level and air pressure you want at that price point is just a no in my book for ML series.
I do like the sw3, for case fans only but not for a high fin count, "thinner" rad. I would only use that for a rad I know can handle decent wattage of heat at 750-900 RPM range. But what's the going average at that speed with at least 1.0 gpm?? If you doing 200 watts for a 3 fan rad (for example) you doing good IMO.
 
#9 ·
Sometimes the outrage is justified, just to remind the manufacturers that their customers aren't blind sheeple.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

New A series aren't out yet... right now the debate going on in watercooling subsection here is SW3 vs ML140 for example, with nobody even mentioning Noctua. But when the A series do come out I'd be very interested in Noctua again.
ML140 are overrated , with several users here stating they received outright bad samples with grinding/scraping (rather than cosmetic differences). The sample variance is likely even higher than Noctua's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Wow, that's interesting.

Below are the ML series



and



In order to get the noise level and air pressure you want at that price point is just a no in my book for ML series.
I do like the sw3, for case fans only but not for a high fin count, "thinner" rad. I would only use that for a rad I know can handle decent wattage of heat at 750-900 RPM range. But what's the going average at that speed with at least 1.0 gpm?? If you doing 200 watts for a 3 fan rad (for example) you doing good IMO.
The one thing I noticed about Be Quiet's fan is the inlet has no taper , much like the older gen NF-P14 & Antec True Quiet. It doesn't seem to affect the noise result but it's something to be mindful of.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Wow, that's interesting.

In order to get the noise level and air pressure you want at that price point is just a no in my book for ML series.
I do like the sw3, for case fans only but not for a high fin count, "thinner" rad. I would only use that for a rad I know can handle decent wattage of heat at 750-900 RPM range. But what's the going average at that speed with at least 1.0 gpm?? If you doing 200 watts for a 3 fan rad (for example) you doing good IMO.
True, ML140s are pretty expensive. But, by saying I am interested in new Noctua A series which the rep said was going to retail around $30 each I am saying I am less price sensitive - but I understand that's not the case for everyone.

But the 'Noctua > everything' is just dumb. I don't think there's a Jesus fan that kills all other fans. Vardar have issues with buzzing and weird noise characteristics along with no rubber mounts, Eloops are bad in certain configurations, SW3 has PWM issue. ML140 is expensive. I think Noctuas right now perform worse than the SW3/ML140. Normal Noctuas are really ugly, and PPC 2000rpm versions are expensive too. (A decent pro for Noctua in next part of my post.)

SW3 are good fans. Even if I just grant that they are inferior to Noctuas in performance, the price/looks/performance factor is still compelling, and I would still think the fandom for Noctua is overblown given how reasonable the SW3s still look.

(You probably know where to look for some other sources of fan reviews, but in case you or somebody else reading this don't... check out Thermalbench and Extremerigs.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

ML140 are overrated , with several users here stating they received outright bad samples with grinding/scraping (rather than cosmetic differences). The sample variance is likely even higher than Noctua's.
The one thing I noticed about Be Quiet's fan is the inlet has no taper , much like the older gen NF-P14. It doesn't seem to affect the noise result but it's something to be mindful of.
I did a quick search but couldn't find many reports of the problem you mentioned. I read Cyclops having some scraping at 5v, that's about it. To be fair, Noctuas have been around for a long time and many fans have been sold. Whatever QC issues which might have existed would have probably been teased out by now.

Right now I'm pro SW3 over ML140.

Oh, and while I'm already off topic: IIRC new Noctua fans will arrive at 120mm variant first, 140m MONTHS later (no exaggeration). If that's the case, I'll be waiting for a looooong while.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

It really says it all. I have to wonder if people even now that Noctua has a better line of fans??
New A series aren't out yet... right now the debate going on in watercooling subsection here is SW3 vs ML140 for example, with nobody even mentioning Noctua. But when the A series do come out I'd be very interested in Noctua again.
Isn't the 140mm eLoop the king of 140mm WC fans ATM?

Unless you want high RPMs I guess, in which case you get a Sanyo or Delta.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Isn't the 140mm eLoop the king of 140mm WC fans ATM?

Unless you want high RPMs I guess, in which case you get a Sanyo or Delta.
They're good fans... but not meant to be run in pull or push pull. It's possible to get droning noises that way.

Oh, and IMO they look ugly.
:h34r-smi


To be fair: With some recent chatter I got about push vs push pull I'm all a sudden not sure push pull is better for performance at a given noise level. Of course, PP is going to beat P when all fans are maxed RPM.
 
#15 ·
http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=160832
Quote:
A month later, I'm returning the second replacement fan from Corsair. All of them have the exact same chirping noise at certain RPMs and I literally have to smash the back panel of my case (also Corsair) to get it to stop.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1606861/corsair-ml120-fans/250#post_26179345
Quote:
ML's get "loud" after about 700-800/rpm's, so that's the maximum I run them at and so the noise stays at reasonable levels in my opinion. And no, my fans do not sound like that fan on the video. I had a broken ML120 and it sounded like there was a bird trapped and chirping inside my case
http://www.overclock.net/t/1606861/corsair-ml120-fans/150#post_25451259
Quote:
So after waiting almost 3 weeks for the fans to ship (due to limited supply) it seems I got a defective 140mm and now I have to wait another 3 weeks for a replacement. I mean this is not normal, right? Video attached below. When I unplug the fan, the sound goes away. I'm using a 2-way splitter since my board doesn't have enough built in PWM fan headers, but I've tested it with a direct connection to the header as well. At this point, I'm not even sure what "quiet" means because at ~600 RPM it's pretty audible if I have no music or anything in the background, but I got it more for aesthetics.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1606861/corsair-ml120-fans/70#post_25392271
Quote:
I got three ML120 pros to try out, and Two of them seem to have a slight defect. They are relatively silent horizontally at low RPMs (400-800rpm), but vertically they make a clearly audible brushing-type noise.
That's in addition to people complaining of weird noises when putting it on voltage instead of PWM mode.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

ML140 are overrated , with several users here stating they received outright bad samples with grinding/scraping (rather than cosmetic differences). The sample variance is likely even higher than Noctua's.
The one thing I noticed about Be Quiet's fan is the inlet has no taper , much like the older gen NF-P14 & Antec True Quiet. It doesn't seem to affect the noise result but it's something to be mindful of.
Good point
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

If it's true the stuff from the Reddit user was just placebo that that is just a modern day example of how crazily fallible our minds are.

Speaking of brand loyalty, I still see many comments in the video going on about how Noctua > everything else. And where do those beliefs come from... only anecdotal evidence?

To be fair, if somebody is going for the Noctua look, having fans being off color IS annoying.
Delta > everything.

They have fans with CFM and noise profiles for every use case and they aren't beige colored like a 90's PC. Reliability has been proven in the industrial and server segments to boot.
 
#19 ·
I am disturbed by how GamersNexus worded that article in such a way so as to turn on its own internet outrage engine against end users who raised a legitimate concern.

Corporations bring out new revisions that cut costs and make products worse all the time. That's standard practice.

End users should be encouraged to call out changes like that, and bring them to the public's attention, and promise to boycott the newly-worse products because of those downgraded revisions.

As a result of GamersNexus (and also members of tech forums) shaming ends users for having done that (or at least, those end users had good reason to believe they were doing that), it encourages end users to be silent in the future instead of calling out problems, or potential problems, out of fear that if they do so, they will be shamed again.

If Noctua didn't want the bad publicity from this mess, then they could have gotten out ahead of it and publicly explained the differences themselves, before they started using different parts, instead of being silent and hoping that their customers would be too stupid to discover the different parts on their own.
 
#20 ·
Watercooling fans is a touchy subject. That said, no regrets over buying 10 ML140s. No other fan combines such a nice LED effect with high performance.

And I thought Thermal Bench used NB eloops for consistent testing results, even though they are not the absolute best.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

When will people stop using Reddit as a source? The same way you wouldn't go to a bunch of old ladies in a busy market for engineering advice, why would one use a bunch of raging keyboard warriors as one?
Everytime I have to use Reddit for anything, I end up feeling absolutely mortified, regardless of subject, due to how many misconceptions are usually parroted over there, and just how cringy their users can be.

I really don't like the kind of user it attracts. It's much easier to see posts from very polar people than it is to see from more mild-mannered, seasoned individuals. That's not to say they're not there, but their voices are usually drowned out by the insanity.

To be fair, though, that's the case with every forum that goes mainstream and becomes super popular like Reddit.
 
#24 ·
The problem with mag-lev barometric bearings is that if they have a manufacturing defect, they are affected in major ways. If they have no defects however, no other bearing surpases them in both life and noise.
They more or less don't wear out and the noise remains the same after years of use (unlike everything else, where the noise increases as the years pass).

It's unfortunate that corsair has QC issues with them. Enermax also suffers from this.
 
#25 ·
I should ask for a replacement for my 9cm slim Noctua then. It started grinding like a beast and decided to stop spinning altogether a couple days ago. Some WD-40 on the bearing seems to have gotten it to work again without major noise issues, but still bugs me.

Amazing that they offer 6 years of warranty though.
 
#26 ·
I recently got a pack of ML140 and I don't regret the purchase. They run smoother than the SP140 ones that came with the H115i.
 
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