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post #1311 of 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

I use HWINFO avidly, more hours than many members shares. I also have good rapport with Martin Malik (aka Mumak on OCN) author of HWINFO.

When I got Ryzen/C6H at launch I did a lot of testing and passed info to Mumak, as he didn't have Ryzen on C6H at the time. He was able to liaise with ASUS and sort some issues at that time. This was ~March 17, in a private message which I will not share the contents. He asked me my view if HWINFO should show two values for CPU temperature. One would be tCTL and other tDIE, tDIE would account for the offset that AMD added to tCTL. I agreed with his way forward, I'm sure he will verify the occurrence of the discussion for you if you like wink.gif .

So as said before tCTL is the real sensor, tDIE is tCTL with offset accounted (ie removed).

The reason Martin went with this route was if board vendors/AMD changed tCTL behavior (ie accounted for offset on X CPU) the user could hide tDIE and use tCTL. If tCTL never changed than users could see as AMD/board vendor have and use tDIE.

Here is a post for you to ref within the C6H thread around when these discussions/implementations happened. Here is a search result of the thread with posts from Mumak regarding tCTL from that thread for you to ref.

tCTL can be skewed on ZE and C6H, thus tDIE will be skewed, other boards I have no idea as I have not used. If Sense MI Skew [Auto] defaults to Enabled or it is manually set as [Enabled], the offset for Sense MI Skew can be changed in UEFI.

If Sense MI Skew [Auto] defaults to [Disabled] or is manually set as such you will have AMD AGESA default behavior for tCTL.

Then on C6H/ZE the Super IO chip reads tCTL for fan control purposes. This also can be manipulated by UEFI programing and can have "weighting" for operation, this post by Elmor on C6H has some insight (point 2).

I have owned 3x R7 1700 and 2x R7 1800X and used on same C6H with UEFI from launch til now, so have experience of how they behaved. I am aware of the purpose of tCTL and the offset present, but I know what tDIE is in HWINFO for sure smile.gif .

Ok, I think I might have been misusing the word 'sensor' and meant 'temperature'. I can agree there is only a single sensor, tCTL, and also believe tCTL has an artificial number added to it depending on the model of the CPU, which can be deducted to get the -real- temperature which hwinfo has called tDIE. Sorry for the confusion of using the wrong word. I just dont feel I should believe a 1700 and 1700X running very very low speed and voltage on idle (far less than 10 watts) should cause the 1700X to mysteriously be 17C/30F hotter than the 1700 since they're for all intents and purposes identical CPUs constructiuon-wise
post #1312 of 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centrifugal View Post

Yeah, I've always gone by the Tdie as that is what I have read is the "true" temperature, but it seems this is open to some debate. Any temps I quote are Tdie.

My system has never thermal throttled under OC but I haven't pushed it too far because I'm scared of going too far beyond 68 degrees C and whether that will damage my CPU. Thats what I want to know really... I could OC to 4/4.1ghz but my temps will be in the 70s. Is temperature alone going to damage the CPU or is it just the voltage that will do that?

Hard to say what will hurt a Ryzen chip at this point in time, especially a threadripper, since they haven't been out very long; its a brand new architecture created from the ground up. Just saw someone said in a random thread their stock 1800X died. Meanwhile I'm dumping 1.4 to 1.5v through my 1950X. I'm more concerned about 'safe' votlages for SoC and VDDP.
post #1313 of 1699
Hi there,

Having an issue populating all 8 DIMM slots. Using 32 GB Trident Z RGB 3200 C-14, Rog Zenith extreme, 1950X using BIOS version 0801. On the mobo LED, it would go through a bunch of memory codes, then when it gets to CPU, it would turn off and restart the boot cycle, doing this over and over again. Removing the new 4 sticks lets to system start normally. So basically, trying to go from 32 GB ram to 64GB, and it doesn't boot. Any help in this manner will be appreciated
post #1314 of 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartann117 View Post

Hi there,

Having an issue populating all 8 DIMM slots. Using 32 GB Trident Z RGB 3200 C-14, Rog Zenith extreme, 1950X using BIOS version 0801. On the mobo LED, it would go through a bunch of memory codes, then when it gets to CPU, it would turn off and restart the boot cycle, doing this over and over again. Removing the new 4 sticks lets to system start normally. So basically, trying to go from 32 GB ram to 64GB, and it doesn't boot. Any help in this manner will be appreciated

I had that but it was due to populating incorrect banks. Not sure that applies to you, just sharing.
post #1315 of 1699
@Spartann117

Reseat your cpu and try to tighten down the socket screws equally. That helped me actually^^
post #1316 of 1699
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssateneth View Post

Ok, I think I might have been misusing the word 'sensor' and meant 'temperature'. I can agree there is only a single sensor, tCTL, and also believe tCTL has an artificial number added to it depending on the model of the CPU, which can be deducted to get the -real- temperature which hwinfo has called tDIE. Sorry for the confusion of using the wrong word. I just dont feel I should believe a 1700 and 1700X running very very low speed and voltage on idle (far less than 10 watts) should cause the 1700X to mysteriously be 17C/30F hotter than the 1700 since they're for all intents and purposes identical CPUs constructiuon-wise

It's not a problem smile.gif , no need to apologize, but I appreciate it and dialogue smile.gif .

I have no idea why you saw a 17°C difference. All I think is that perhaps at one point another of the thermal sensors was read and thus tDIE dropped, then tCTL was refreshed and you saw a difference deviating from fixed offset.

AFAIK there are 20 thermal probes on Ryzen die.



So I apologize for saying "tCTL is the real sensor" as it's really multiple sensors being shown as one reading grouphug.gif . Hence The Stilt stating in a post I have quoted in the Ryzen Essential thread that some "rotating" is going on and highest value shown, etc, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centrifugal View Post

I do appreciate and tend to agree with your explanation, but I'd still love someone to properly explain to me why it's fine for the cpu to be at 1.4-1.5v constantly at idle and low loads. I wouldn't want to run a constant OC at 1.4-1.5v. And that's not meant to sound argumentative, I just really want to know! If it's fine, great, I just want to understand how and why.

Earlier in the thread it was discussed, I shall endeavor to place info in OP ASAP in FAQ section as this is more than likely to keep popping up.

When highest PB/XFR clocks occur the CPU may only be boosting low number of cores, so amps/power draw is lower, so it can take the voltage the SMU has determined for boost clocks.

When "we" OC, "we" do all cores boost, power limit is also removed, so amps/power draw is higher, so it could be detrimental for silicon to use voltages as seen when PB/XFR occur at stock.

When "we" OC, PB/XFR is disabled, so "we" OC base clock/PState 0, an increase of +25MHz above stock base clock/PState 0 will engage "OC mode".
Edited by gupsterg - 10/21/17 at 1:56am
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post #1317 of 1699
Out of interest with regards to achieving 4/4.1Ghz what Core Soc Values are we generally seeing ?
post #1318 of 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartann117 View Post

Hi there,

Having an issue populating all 8 DIMM slots. Using 32 GB Trident Z RGB 3200 C-14, Rog Zenith extreme, 1950X using BIOS version 0801. On the mobo LED, it would go through a bunch of memory codes, then when it gets to CPU, it would turn off and restart the boot cycle, doing this over and over again. Removing the new 4 sticks lets to system start normally. So basically, trying to go from 32 GB ram to 64GB, and it doesn't boot. Any help in this manner will be appreciated

I have been through this situation as well. I tried three different kits, first two were 8 x 8gb kits to get me 64GB , but I found the same thing. I had to get down to 4 sticks to allowed me to boot and either I had to run at 2133 or in some cases I could do no better than 2933 MHZ OC on RAM that was rated at 3000 and 3200. Finally I settled down on 4 sticks of 16GB Trident Z RGB RAM 14 CAS. That works like a charm. If you want 32GB I suggest using Trident RGB 4 x 8GB sticks at the 14 CAS . I believe it will be a while till we have a BIOS that supports populating all 8 slots with RAM and stable.
Edited by Ronsanut - 10/21/17 at 12:23pm
post #1319 of 1699
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE View Post

Out of interest with regards to achieving 4/4.1Ghz what Core Soc Values are we generally seeing ?

I need ~1.3V for 3.9GHz, for reasonable stability IIRC. As temps got rather toasty on the EK block I did not venture higher or do lengthy testing redface.gif , I may once swap block.

SOC I didn't seem to need more than what I had been using for stock CPU, RAM MHz was 3333MHz. IIRC. I am although only using 2x 8GB SR currently.

It is not unheard of within Ryzen threads that you may need a bump in SOC as you push CPU MHz, as well as VCORE. Like wise if RAM MHz is pushed some CPUs need a bump in VCORE to cope with it even if you didn't change CPU MHz.

So I guess you can gauge from others shares what you may have to do, but settings wise you're gonna need to tune yourself.
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Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
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post #1320 of 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE View Post

Out of interest with regards to achieving 4/4.1Ghz what Core Soc Values are we generally seeing ?

I need ~1.3V for 3.9GHz, for reasonable stability IIRC. As temps got rather toasty on the EK block I did not venture higher or do lengthy testing redface.gif , I may once swap block.

SOC I didn't seem to need more than what I had been using for stock CPU, RAM MHz was 3333MHz. IIRC. I am although only using 2x 8GB SR currently.

It is not unheard of within Ryzen threads that you may need a bump in SOC as you push CPU MHz, as well as VCORE. Like wise if RAM MHz is pushed some CPUs need a bump in VCORE to cope with it even if you didn't change CPU MHz.

So I guess you can gauge from others shares what you may have to do, but settings wise you're gonna need to tune yourself.

Great, I will do some testing.

Im currently at 1.325 Vcore and 0.87 SOC at 4.1 but having memory clock issues so may bump up the SOC to see if it helps. I have 3600 Rated mem but can only get it to 3066 lol
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