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post #661 of 2021
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dafadau View Post

Have disabled Gear Down mode - no difference.

Could I just have some "bad" RAM? Mem write, read, copy and latency should be much better than I'm getting.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



Thaiphoon Burner results:

Thanks smile.gif .

You have single rank RAM. As you use 1 dimm per channel BGS: Off and BGSA: On is correct.

I don't think you have bad RAM smile.gif .

I will do a 2933MHz dual channel run ASAP smile.gif , from what I have seen what 'we' get as dual channel benches double speed at quad channel for Mem Read/Write/Copy. Compare Sicness's post with my run of 3466MHz smile.gif . He has Flare X, but the Trident Z I have use same PCB/RAM IC, we have same CPU/mobo, etc.

(Note: right click images in spoilers and open in new tab to see full size. CPU is stock setup for runs (1950X), even latest beta of AIDA64 still shows incorrect RAM timings, runs done with last beta, latest is same still for results.)

3200MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt Fast preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3333MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt Fast preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3466MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3466MHz 2T Dual Channel - The Stilt preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Ref this post by The Stilt and view the screenies above, aim to tweak timings and see where you get smile.gif .
Edited by gupsterg - 9/25/17 at 3:15am
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post #662 of 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Thanks smile.gif .

You have single rank RAM. As you use 1 dimm per channel BGS: Off and BGSA: On is correct.

I don't think you have bad RAM smile.gif .

I will do a 2933MHz dual channel run ASAP smile.gif , from what I have seen what 'we' get as dual channel benches double speed at quad channel for Mem Read/Write/Copy. Compare Sicness's post with my run of 3466MHz smile.gif . He has Flare X, but the Trident Z I have use same PCB/RAM IC, we have same CPU/mobo, etc.

(Note: right click images in spoilers and open in new tab to see full size. CPU is stock setup for runs (1950X), even latest beta of AIDA64 still shows incorrect RAM timings, runs done with last beta, latest is same still for results.)

3200MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt Fast preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3333MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt Fast preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3466MHz Dual Channel - The Stilt preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

3466MHz 2T Dual Channel - The Stilt preset for Samsung B die, single sided RAM, 1 dimm per channel config.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Ref this post by The Stilt and view the screenies above, aim to tweak timings and see where you get smile.gif .

Great advice, and much appreciated! I'll get on this...
post #663 of 2021
Thread Starter 
Another tid bit that I forgot that will quicken your tweaking smile.gif .

View OP here, go to section RAM Info / Data Fabric ... > The Stilt's DDR4 Timings, there scroll down and you will find a link to a post by The Stilt with Hynix AFR and MFR RAM IC (you have AFR), these should work. They are for single rank 1 dimm per channel smile.gif .

Even if you are using quad channel Threadripper is 2 Ryzen memory controller supplying 2 channels each, so essentially your 4x 8GB SR is 1DPC.
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post #664 of 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Another tid bit that I forgot that will quicken your tweaking smile.gif .

View OP here, go to section RAM Info / Data Fabric ... > The Stilt's DDR4 Timings, there scroll down and you will find a link to a post by The Stilt with Hynix AFR and MFR RAM IC (you have AFR), these should work. They are for single rank 1 dimm per channel smile.gif .

Even if you are using quad channel Threadripper is 2 Ryzen memory controller supplying 2 channels each, so essentially your 4x 8GB SR is 1DPC.

Dual rank/sided dimms are naturally a bit slower right?
post #665 of 2021
Thread Starter 
As far as I have seen DR has an edge over SR on performance, but SR with correct setup is pretty close. Using SR favors OC'ability/tweak ability.

Just after The Stilt had posted that ~3200MHz we have essentially peaked 'Data Fabric' gains and RAM latency plays more of a factor, AMD posted this article on their community site. In this post I edited a graph as I believe they did compare of SR vs DR at wrong setup and they had the right data within article. Also see Sgt Bilko's post after mine, pretty much echos what I read as users shares on differing RAM.

This article I saw sometime ago on DDR3, link. There are some others floating about on DDR4 and again IIRC DR has edge on SR.
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Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
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post #666 of 2021
Hmm... might be that Distributed Memory access is just slower overall...



Local Mem access



Distributed mem access.

EDIT: since i changed it in ryzen master, local mode run was with 4ghz overclock instead of stock as Distributed was. Affected cache speeds. Memory read/copy and latency is primarily due to the change to Local access however.
Edited by Reikoji - 9/25/17 at 5:23am
post #667 of 2021
Thread Starter 
Not installed RM yet (something usually I see no use for). I will try the UEFI setting change below, dunno how much of a difference it would make on dual channel setup. I can't for a few hours as on a P95 v29.1 build 4 stability test run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl View Post

Thanks Raja!

Would it be possible to restore Memory Access Mode (UMA/NUMA switch) in UEFI? It's currently impossible to switch if you use Linux and don't have a spare Windows install to boot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS View Post

AMD asked us to remove the function to allow Ryzen Master to control it. In any case, you can still set Interleaving to Channel for UMA, and to Auto for NUMA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl View Post

Thanks, that works! I think you mean the opposite though: Channel = NUMA, Auto = UMA.
I was trying Auto and Die previously, which didn't change anything.
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XPS - i5 4690K
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Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
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post #668 of 2021
AIDA memory scores are hardly useful - you are measuring memory access time and bandwidth on a very small sample, and only inside local NUMA domain. AIDA doesn't show what happens when a workload spans across NUMA domains (more than half of the threads and/or more than half of the memory used) and data has to be fetched from remote memory controller.

Esentially you are comparing the best possible scenario (access to local memory exclusively) to the middle ground scenario (interleaved access to local and remote memory), but you're missing the worst scenario: access to remote memory excusively.
Edited by xoqolatl - 9/25/17 at 5:01am
post #669 of 2021
Thread Starter 
True AFAIK.

IIRC Intel Memory Latency checker does these tests. I will test as soon as have time. IIRC there is Linux version as well.

Hopefully members will test and share smile.gif.

*** edit ***

https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intelr-memory-latency-checker
Edited by gupsterg - 9/25/17 at 6:02am
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XPS - Q6600
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Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
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Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
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The Stilt Machine
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
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post #670 of 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl View Post

AIDA memory scores are hardly useful - you are measuring memory access time and bandwidth on a very small sample, and only inside local NUMA domain. AIDA doesn't show what happens when a workload spans across NUMA domains (more than half of the threads and/or more than half of the memory used) and data has to be fetched from remote memory controller.

Esentially you are comparing the best possible scenario (access to local memory exclusively) to the middle ground scenario (interleaved access to local and remote memory), but you're missing the worst scenario: access to remote memory excusively.

Understood. I began looking into this after getting low PC Mark 10 scores (4879 at stock, then a complete re-install gave 5299), and trying to track down the culprit...
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