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307 views 9 replies 3 participants last post by  billbartuska 
#1 ·
Hi,

Copied this from motherboard manual

(Note) Please note that an M.2 PCIe SSD cannot be used to create a RAID set with SATA drive(s).

I've not done a raid set yet but I can see the advantage of a RAID 0 if I've understood this correctly - As with aspects of technology it takes a while to get used to them and exactly how behave when used.

From mobo manual it mentions that SSD M.2 cannot be used with RAID sets which seems obvious but I'd like to make sure. Some people like to use 3 x SATA SSD in RAID 0 and the performance is incredible from what others have reporterd.

Is it possible to have the OS installed on M.2 SSD @ x4 or @ x 2 AND have the 3 x SATA SSD's in RAID?

3 x SATA SSD in RAID but the M.2 with the OS installed on is not in RAID - Does this work?

As I've never used this but would plan to it'd be good to know -
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#2 ·
If you install Windows on a non raid drive it won't get any benefit for RAID, except for data storage and maybe a little benefit for programs (they still have to access Windows) on the RAID 0 drives.

And you can't later make a RAID 0 array bootable (so you can install an OS there), at least not without overcoming a lot of very technical issues.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by fra z View Post

Hi,

Copied this from motherboard manual

(Note) Please note that an M.2 PCIe SSD cannot be used to create a RAID set with SATA drive(s).

I've not done a raid set yet but I can see the advantage of a RAID 0 if I've understood this correctly - As with aspects of technology it takes a while to get used to them and exactly how behave when used.

From mobo manual it mentions that SSD M.2 cannot be used with RAID sets which seems obvious but I'd like to make sure. Some people like to use 3 x SATA SSD in RAID 0 and the performance is incredible from what others have reporterd.

Is it possible to have the OS installed on M.2 SSD @ x4 or @ x 2 AND have the 3 x SATA SSD's in RAID?

3 x SATA SSD in RAID but the M.2 with the OS installed on is not in RAID - Does this work?

As I've never used this but would plan to it'd be good to know -
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif
cheers.gif
Yes that would work provided the 3 x SATA drives are in a separate RAID array i.e not combined with the M.2. If you use M.2 @x2 it would be slower than 3x SATA drives in RAID 0, personally I would use M.2 @x4 for the O/S and 3x SATA drives in RAID 0 for data.
The main benefit you will get apart from a larger capacity volume if using RAID 0 is that using a RAID 0 array for data will make the system feel much more 'snappy" or responsive just be aware if one drive in the array fails you will loose ALL your data on that array. My set up is similar but all my data is backed up on a NAS
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#4 ·
Thanks for the responses - I know nothing about all this tech really - Or am just waking up to the possibilities - then the imagination kicks in and I wander - Will this work as I imagine it might or hope.

RAID I know very little about - but will no doubt learn more - Real world application would be a home studio - and using the SSD's to record a meat head thumping drums -
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- or playing back sample libraries, hence the RAID

Or it could be more office based, creating backups / clone images of machines eg - Acronis True Image - It'll be a while till this is done but learning in bits really helps. It's only now I've begun to get my head round chipset PCI-e lanes and CPU PCI-e lanes.

It's great to read that it would work - SSD @ x4 nVME, OS install and RAID on other SSD's - Are there any downsides to this?

On a slightly higher level of complexity, is it possible to have 2 RAID arrays on one machine? - EG - 2 or three drives used for READ and 2 or three drives used for WRITE? - But each on a separate RAID?

This is assuming the SATA 3 ports are available to be used? - This is correct isn't it? - 3 drives on RAID is 3 x 6 GB/s so the bandwidth is maximized?

It's all good, even if there is some confusion along the way -
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#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by fra z View Post

Thanks for the responses - I know nothing about all this tech really - Or am just waking up to the possibilities - then the imagination kicks in and I wander - Will this work as I imagine it might or hope.

RAID I know very little about - but will no doubt learn more - Real world application would be a home studio - and using the SSD's to record a meat head thumping drums -
band.gif
- or playing back sample libraries, hence the RAID

Or it could be more office based, creating backups / clone images of machines eg - Acronis True Image - It'll be a while till this is done but learning in bits really helps. It's only now I've begun to get my head round chipset PCI-e lanes and CPU PCI-e lanes.

It's great to read that it would work - SSD @ x4 nVME, OS install and RAID on other SSD's - Are there any downsides to this?

On a slightly higher level of complexity, is it possible to have 2 RAID arrays on one machine? - EG - 2 or three drives used for READ and 2 or three drives used for WRITE? - But each on a separate RAID?

This is assuming the SATA 3 ports are available to be used? - This is correct isn't it? - 3 drives on RAID is 3 x 6 GB/s so the bandwidth is maximized?

It's all good, even if there is some confusion along the way -
specool.gif
You can create as many RAID arrays as you want on one machine (I have 2 RAID 0 arrays on mine one for O/S and one for files) each RAID array will be seen by windows as one drive, the downside to any RAID 0 array is the possible loss of data due to a HDD failure which honestly is quite rare these days especially with SSD's. Bandwidth will be determined by your chipset Z170,Z270 and X299 use DMI 3.0 so expect a limit of around 3600MB/Sec sequential reads however Z87,Z97 and X99 use DMI 2.0 which has only half the bandwidth, the DMI is used to communicate between the CPU and the chipset. The more drives you add to a RAID 0 array the more points of failure you will have, which mobo are you using?
 
#6 ·
Hi,

There are a few motherboards Z97 / X99 / AM3+ / Z170 - I ask for general information for when I do this. Z97 / X99 DMI is 5 GB/S isn't it? - And SSD performance is quite good for both read and write so if 2 are added into RAID the performance will be even better, even if it is on Z97 or X99, real world useable performance.

I'll need to read up some more on this.

The speeds for Z97 / X99 would still be enough I hope. SATA 2 300 Gb/s > SATA 3 6 Gb/s. From what other users have stated there is still very good performance to be had on X99 with SSD's for read and write, please could you elaborate, thanks
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by fra z View Post

Hi,

There are a few motherboards Z97 / X99 / AM3+ / Z170 - I ask for general information for when I do this. Z97 / X99 DMI is 5 GB/S isn't it? - And SSD performance is quite good for both read and write so if 2 are added into RAID the performance will be even better, even if it is on Z97 or X99, real world useable performance.

I'll need to read up some more on this.

The speeds for Z97 / X99 would still be enough I hope. SATA 2 300 Gb/s > SATA 3 6 Gb/s. From what other users have stated there is still very good performance to be had on X99 with SSD's for read and write, please could you elaborate, thanks
Both X99 and Z97 use DMI 2.0 (unless it uses lanes directly from the CPU in the case of X99,not bootable) which in theory should give a bandwidth of around 2000MB/Sec but due to overhead in reality expect sequential read speeds of around 1500 to 1600MB/sec if you use 4 SSD's in Raid 0 any more SSD's in the RAID after the first 4 will only result in more capacity and zero benefit in speed. 4 SSD's in Raid 0 on Z170 nets me roughly 1900MB/sec because Z170 uses DMI 3.0 which has double the bandwidth of X99/Z97. Screen shot below shows what to expect on Z170 with 2x Samsung 960 pro in Raid 0 and 4x Samsung 850 pro in Raid 0.
 
#8 ·
Note that the SATA l, ll, and lll specs (150mb, 300mb, and 600mb) are buss speeds (ie. the maximum data transfer speed for data on that path). They have nothing to do with how fast a drive will actually transfer data. That depends on the hardware, drivers and software.

Analogy:

If you have a car with a maximum speed of 60 miles per hour (hard drive spec) and you drive it on a highway with a 60 mile per hour speed limit (data transfer rate) the car will go at 60 miles per hour. But if you drive the same car on a highway with a speed limit of 100 miles per hour (transfer rate) the car will not go 100 miles per hour - only 60 miles per hour (because that is it's specification).
 
#9 ·
Hi,

Thanks for the graphs

Yes I understand a little about a SATA mechanical HDD has a rough limit of 180 MB/s maybe upto 250 MB/s if it is a WD Black for example. Then if this mechanical HDD is connected to SATA II port the limit is 300 MB/s. Enter SATA III 600 MB/s and SSD Samsung EVO 840 then upto 520 MB/s read / write, approx. That is the understanding so far.

Keep the analogies coming because the pennies are dropping -
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There was a set back in understanding due to buildiing blocks of data eg bits and bytes and the number 8 figuring strongly and confusion arising for example SATA III 6 Gb/s or giga-bits per second somehow equates to 600 MB/s or mega-bytes per second

At some point I'll look at it from the start eg 1 byte = 8 bits or what ever it is and then work up until it is understood more but I can see that 3 x 600 MB/s SATA III SSD RAID 0 could equal in theory 1.8 GB/s or giga-bytes per second. Then knowing the DMI is limited to 5 GB/s so as long as the chipset PCI-e lanes / PCH SATA etc.... add up to less than 5 GB/s everything will be OK. All theory at the moment

Then if on X99 platform PCI-e 3 can use CPU PCI-e lanes which can take strain off the chipset.

Speaking of X99, do the PCI-e GEN 2 go through chipset? all the time or can they go through the CPU? or is it just PCI-e 3 that goes through CPU?
 
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