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[TC] Volkswagen to offer electric versions of all of its vehicles by 2030

4K views 84 replies 37 participants last post by  sli_shroom 
#1 ·
Quote:
Volkswagen is the latest car maker to announce a move to electrify its entire range of automobile offerings: The car maker will provide either hybrid or electric versions of every one of its 300 models by 2030, it announced today ahead of the Frankfurt Motor Show in German.

VW's not the first to make a similar commitment - and in fact Daimler's Mercedes-Benz announced it was going to do the same by 2022 earlier today. But the Volkswagen Group's vehicle range is quite a bit larger than Mercedes-Benz's, which makes this a more significant overall commitment.

By 2025, Volkswagen plans to offer 80 new electric vehicles across its group and sub-brands, which include Audi, Bentley, Bugatti and the Volkswagen brand itself. VW has committed to spend nearly $23 billion U.S. on getting this plan in place via zero emissions technology investment, and it also said it would commit more than $55 billion toward purchasing batteries to provide power for these vehicles.

The news also follows the big announcement from this weekend that China would be banning fossil fuel burning vehicles eventually, joining commitments made by the U.K. and France before. There's clearly a trend on both the regulatory and the industry side of the equation with regards to electrified vehicles, but there will still be a lot of questions and work to be done in terms of maturing the supply chain and overcoming technology and infrastructure challenges.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/volkswagen-to-offer-electric-versions-of-all-of-its-vehicles-by-2030/
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

So I guess diesel really is dead, now?
When you're the one to piss your pants and everyone sees you doing it, people usually don't forget.
 
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#4 ·
Everything looks great on paper.

Except that current power grids won't handle such a rapid increase in energy consumption.

+Add the fact that only nuclear and coal(or any fossil fuel) power plants will output enough power for these cars to charge.

Solar/wind are not stable power sources while water power plants are not exactly environment friendly because you have to do a lot of landscape changing.

At least miners will be happy because coal will sell like crazy.
 
#5 ·
I predict there will end up just a small number of regions that retain coal fired power generation, and they'll end up making bank selling power to everyone else who goes hard on solar and wind and screws over their power grid. The eco-fanatics though will get theirs back by forcing punitive carbon taxes on the coal using regions, all while hypocritically buying that coal power. That or rolling brownouts will be the new normal.
 
#6 ·
One potential positive for so many automakers moving towards electric: Might actually get 1st world nations to update their utility infrastructure.

Either that, or you'll have to do Grid-Storage*-Car. Unless people are going to be okay with charging overnight at home and taxing businesses for "high load" charging stations, the grid needs to improve.
*supercap array, li-ion arrray, etc
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnanasnoic View Post

Cheaper and easier for the manufacturers, electric cars still don't have enough range for many drivers.
Indeed, but they will keep forcing it onto the consumer until you're forced to go electric and then they got you by the balls. I mean the cheapest option atm is around $25,000 and it's a puny death trap of a vehicle, it makes a Ford Focus look like a man's car in comparison. A real electric car that doesn't feel like a shoe box is $50,000+ and the majority wont waste it on something that is a PITA all around. It's a pain to work on yourself (aka the tech side), it's a pain to find charging stations where you need them, the battery and life is laughable before you get to shell out another $500+ for new batteries, the travel distance is a joke, and it's using a energy that is either dirty, dangerous, or plain unreliable on a infrastructure that can't even support what we have now.

Perhaps it will change....personally I think they will just rape us in the long run with tax increases for the infrastructure and then slam us with carbon tax, solar tax, or some clean energy tax.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post

In 10 years we'll see cars with 300-500 mile electric range with half the battery cost of today's 200 mile range batteries. I'm more concerned about the grid handling all that charging.
And i still won't buy them. I'll keep my v8, I can move, I can camp, I can go exploring in the mountains, I can go and take rood trips where " recharging " is a 10 min trip, and if i so choose to go camping long term i can bring extra fuel...

I have far better traction that any electric vehicle i know of in the snow and ice.

As an added bonus, dat sound
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post

In 10 years we'll see cars with 300-500 mile electric range with half the battery cost of today's 200 mile range batteries. I'm more concerned about the grid handling all that charging.
And i still won't buy them. I'll keep my v8, I can move, I can camp, I can go exploring in the mountains, I can go and take rood trips where " recharging " is a 10 min trip, and if i so choose to go camping long term i can bring extra fuel...

I have far better traction that any electric vehicle i know of in the snow and ice.

As an added bonus, dat sound
That's fine, was only responding to the cost post. No one is taking ICE cars off the road, the worst thing that could happen is AI cars come out and insurance for cars without it go up, but that has nothing to do with EVs.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

And i still won't buy them. I'll keep my v8, I can move, I can camp, I can go exploring in the mountains, I can go and take rood trips where " recharging " is a 10 min trip, and if i so choose to go camping long term i can bring extra fuel...

I have far better traction that any electric vehicle i know of in the snow and ice.

As an added bonus, dat sound
It won't be long until the car learns how to drive on ice and slide in any direction perfectly.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post

One potential positive for so many automakers moving towards electric: Might actually get 1st world nations to update their utility infrastructure.

Either that, or you'll have to do Grid-Storage*-Car. Unless people are going to be okay with charging overnight at home and taxing businesses for "high load" charging stations, the grid needs to improve.
*supercap array, li-ion arrray, etc
On a Polish electronics forum there was a discussion about this issue.

There's simply no way to improve grid to the point where most of the cars will be electric.
To give an example.
Model X has 90KWh battery.

To charge it within 12 hours you would need 7.5KW outlet.
With 230V it gives 32.6A.
For overnight 8 hour charge 11.25KW.
230V@48.9A

For 400V (getting power between phases) 18.75A and 28.125A respectively.

In 110V countries like USA just forget about charging at home.

And now onto charging stations.

A charge station for say 50 cars.
562.5KW for 50 cars to charge overnight.

Even with 15KV line(most popular medium voltage in Poland) it equals 37.5A without any losses.

Our vice prime minister wanted 1 million electric cars.
If these were all Tesla Model X it would equal 11.25GW.

Our current maximum power output is ~39GW.

So just to power few % of cars we would need ~25% of our current power output.
Average power usage during the day is usually at ~20-ish GW.

There's a dip in power usage during the night which may help but still we are talking about just few %.
During the night average is around 16GW.

If percentage of electric cars would be to go beyond that we would have to boost our power output a lot.
There's also a problem with power output during summer.

A hot summer was sometimes limitng power output because power plants had too little water for cooling,

So as conclusion.
Forget about massive quickcharge stations.
 
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#17 ·
No it isn't.

Do you understand the level of electrical infrastructure that would need to be added/ upgraded not going to get into the moronic regulations we (in the us) have set for ourselves on building an electric power plant(that do nothing but raise cost)

But just getting that to your door. It involves far more then you know. And would likely bankrupt most cities and or the power companies
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

No it isn't.

Do you understand the level of electrical infrastructure that would need to be added/ upgraded not going to get into the moronic regulations we (in the us) have set for ourselves on building an electric power plant(that do nothing but raise cost)

But just getting that to your door. It involves far more then you know. And would likely bankrupt most cities and or the power companies
The "Grid" fearmogering needs to stop.
 
#20 ·
It isn't fearmongering it is basic science. Do you really think (taking this as an extreme) the Ca grid which only a few years ago was dealing with rolling brownouts could handle it? Do you know what all actually goes into it, I can tell you you dont NOR I do. I now work for a water company. The amount of infrastructure needed to do something as simple as get you clean water is, simply put, mind boggling.

Water is relatively easy to.

Electricity is beyond costly, from the wire to maintaining The wire.

It isnt just as simple as adding more supply (as if that is simple, its not, why did you think the electric company gives all these rebates? It is cheaper to get you to use less, then to increase capacity, also after capacity increase (more like during) you have to increase supply lines (power wire) either overhead, if lucky, but what about underground? It's not as easy as your 6 word "cute" response tries to downplay it to. I have not even started in on the sub stations and what not.

Lastly there is the house factor. Individuals would need to upgrade their panels and wiring as well (assuming a modest 2-3 cars per family - I e a 2 parent system with both that work and a kid that drives..... ))
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Do you know what all actually goes into it, I can tell you you dont NOR I do.
So, why are you commenting on it, then?

Sounds like fearmongering to me.
 
#22 ·
Right, you take 1 sentence out of context, but i am fear mongering, i used actual science. I don't know all. But i know more then most, i am probably one of few who have actually worked with 4000v, worked at sub stations and generator plants, have you?
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawelr98 View Post

On a Polish electronics forum there was a discussion about this issue.

There's simply no way to improve grid to the point where most of the cars will be electric.
To give an example.
Model X has 90KWh battery.

To charge it within 12 hours you would need 7.5KW outlet.
With 230V it gives 32.6A.
For overnight 8 hour charge 11.25KW.
230V@48.9A

For 400V (getting power between phases) 18.75A and 28.125A respectively.

In 110V countries like USA just forget about charging at home.

And now onto charging stations.

A charge station for say 50 cars.
562.5KW for 50 cars to charge overnight.

Even with 15KV line(most popular medium voltage in Poland) it equals 37.5A without any losses.

Our vice prime minister wanted 1 million electric cars.
If these were all Tesla Model X it would equal 11.25GW.

Our current maximum power output is ~39GW.

So just to power few % of cars we would need ~25% of our current power output.
Average power usage during the day is usually at ~20-ish GW.

There's a dip in power usage during the night which may help but still we are talking about just few %.
During the night average is around 16GW.

If percentage of electric cars would be to go beyond that we would have to boost our power output a lot.
There's also a problem with power output during summer.

A hot summer was sometimes limitng power output because power plants had too little water for cooling,

So as conclusion.
Forget about massive quickcharge stations.
Agree.

I don't need electric car since mine runs on Liqiud Petrol Gas ( LPG ) and it's very popolar in Poland.
650KM distance cost ~ 30$ to travel. And it's very eco friendly.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

No it isn't.

Do you understand the level of electrical infrastructure that would need to be added/ upgraded not going to get into the moronic regulations we (in the us) have set for ourselves on building an electric power plant(that do nothing but raise cost)

But just getting that to your door. It involves far more then you know. And would likely bankrupt most cities and or the power companies
So much this.

Do people realise how much it costs to construct power stations? In the UK there has been not one nuclear power station open in the last 20 years, and although a couple are planned, many more have been decommissioned in that time. Why? Cost of planning. In the 1960s that was far cheaper and the government was throwing money at it. Now it takes the entire momentum of the government to possibly build a single station on an existing site, and that might not even go ahead. Not to mention all the coal stations are being decommissioned as well, so what are we going to be left with?

Even if it only took two or three nuclear power stations to run all the electric cars, we still aren't likely to see them built before they are needed. Even if the government provided funding today, I can guarantee they won't be ready by 2040.

I'm not even going to mention renewable sources. There isn't a single one that is capable of generating the power required. Even if they did, Wind is too variable, to space costly and too ugly, geothermal is too expensive, hydro not possible in most of the country due to geography, and solar, I wish!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro3ootector View Post

Agree.

I don't need electric car since mine runs on Liqiud Petrol Gas ( LPG ) and it's very popolar in Poland.
650KM distance cost ~ 30$ to travel. And it's very eco friendly.
Sshh... Lets keep LPG cheap. If people realise it exists then it will be taxed forever.

Need to switch my van over to LPG, it has horrendous fuel consumption.
 
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#26 ·
After some kilome.......ehm miles (european folk here) on a medium-sized (again, for european standards) medium-priced Renault Zoe full electric car of my dad (bought on second-hand! 15k euros) I just realized that petrol cars are dead, sounds such old technology ... I was shocked..... at the times I was looking with lovers eyes the new Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 turbo with rear wheels traction (something "whoa" according to last years Alfa Romeo offer) but the price made me bleed (around 35-40k euros for a basic setup) .... after using that little electric car it completely lost all the attractive...... why should I take a 5-6 years loan for something that is not much more than a t-model by ford?

But then I agree with all of you.....elecrtivity is something that has the better efficiency if it is taken by the source which is difficult for many aspects.....and impossible for may others (It is estimated that at least 25% of all the eletricity producted is wasted in the power grid delivery, read of an italian woman researcher at MIT in superconductors that is tryign to figure out something)

I can see this in the future:
- poor ******** with primitive and low weight low-fuel comsumption cars (if not forced into economic buses and so on or a "statal uber" thing...)
- middle class people with some low level full electric cars with maybe small backup petrol motors and a subscription to "apple charge" or "google volts"
- high class full.range eletric models which will put a ferrari in shame (well, not the ferrari marconi edition for sure eheheh)

All the other "not aaa" countries (forget me world!!!) will receive our waste like always and will be the next new customers for arabians and so on......sinking into old-style-pollution....when Mars trip is ready?

cheers
 
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