Overclock.net banner

AIO vs custom loop

8K views 67 replies 11 participants last post by  toolmaker03 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

So I plan to upgrade my i7 4790s cpu eventually later on down the line. I want to make sure that the next cpu I pick up is overclock-able and isn't limited by temps. but rather voltage. Which means I need to watercool my cpu in order to achieve this. Now my question is, does custom loop provide better value than AIO? I know custom loop cools components better than AIO due to better quality parts while AIO cheaps out on quality for a lower price.

Thus, is the better cooling performance of custom loop justify the additional cost? I don't care about looks or any of that. I may put my gpu on water in the future, but as for now, my 1070 has reasonable temps. on air. I don't think my 1070 will ever be water-cooled, but future gpu's could be if they are running too hot. So, am I better off with an AIO or custom loop for the money knowing that I may put a gpu under water in the future and will certainly be putting a cpu? Or, am I better off with an extreme air cooler when it comes to value for the $? Please do let me know. Thanks.
biggrin.gif
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

Hello everyone,

So I plan to upgrade my i7 4790s cpu eventually later on down the line. I want to make sure that the next cpu I pick up is overclock-able and isn't limited by temps. but rather voltage. Which means I need to watercool my cpu in order to achieve this. Now my question is, does custom loop provide better value than AIO? I know custom loop cools components better than AIO due to better quality parts while AIO cheaps out on quality for a lower price.

Thus, is the better cooling performance of custom loop justify the additional cost? I don't care about looks or any of that. I may put my gpu on water in the future, but as for now, my 1070 has reasonable temps. on air. I don't think my 1070 will ever be water-cooled, but future gpu's could be if they are running too hot. So, am I better off with an AIO or custom loop for the money knowing that I may put a gpu under water in the future and will certainly be putting a cpu? Or, am I better off with an extreme air cooler when it comes to value for the $? Please do let me know. Thanks.
biggrin.gif
Water cooling is not exactly value for money relative to air cooling, that said depending on radiator surface area you will get better results with a water cooling setup, this is especially true if you plan to water cool your 1070 down the track. One thing to keep in mind is that you can reuse water cooling parts from one build to another so over a period of time it is worth doing, given the current state of CPU temps in the fact that they are getting hotter and hotter makes it even more worthwhile
smile.gif
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

Water cooling is not exactly value for money relative to air cooling, that said depending on radiator surface area you will get better results with a water cooling setup, this is especially true if you plan to water cool your 1070 down the track. One thing to keep in mind is that you can reuse water cooling parts from one build to another so over a period of time it is worth doing, given the current state of CPU temps in the fact that they are getting hotter and hotter makes it even more worthwhile
smile.gif
Ok. So since I want to put a heavy overclock and only be limited by voltage and not temps., I think air cooling is eliminated. I don't think the 1070 will ever be water cooled as I get great temps with it on air, but I may want to water cool with a future gpu(like a 1170 for example) if it's much hotter. I have a feeling an aio is better value, but still not sure as there are some custom loop kits that are very cheap too.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

You can look at the fractal S36 as it's an AIO that's customizable. And, cost much less then creating your own open loop build.
very true. the only thing is, is that it still requires maintenance. However, I do like that it's customizable and cheaper. But is it better value than a custom loop is the million dollar question. I know custom loop costs a lot more, but does it cool a lot better, or am I not missing out on much with the fractal s36? I don't mind the maintenance, but the value has to be there.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

very true. the only thing is, is that it still requires maintenance. However, I do like that it's customizable and cheaper. But is it better value than a custom loop is the million dollar question. I know custom loop costs a lot more, but does it cool a lot better, or am I not missing out on much with the fractal s36? I don't mind the maintenance, but the value has to be there.
According to the video your results should be just as good. Remember, these are actual real parts except for the combo pump/heat sink.
The radiator is a real genuine part that is used in or out of a custom loop. The tubing can use standard 1/4 barbs. Just make sure you get the same tubing if you want to expand. The only thing I would suggest you get right up front is some more tubing, 2 angled barbs both of the same diameter, and reservoir and replace the existing coolant with more distilled water and some sort of anti corrosive inhibitor like PT Nuke. Then call it a day.

It's by far cheaper this way and if you want to upgrade to cooling the video card at some future date you already have the tubing and the barbs should be included in a full waterblock (depending on make).
 
#7 ·
A few years ago Martin from liquid labs tested some kits and AIO systems and found minimal difference on the CPU temp results. When it comes down to it one piece of water cooled copper can only be so much better than another. Full custom loops have other benefits besides sheer outright temps.

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/xspc-raystorm-750-rs240-extreme-universal-cpu-water-cooling-kit/6/

So, its pretty easy to say that in a purely for value for money sense the AIO has a genuine advantage especially if its reasonably easy to expand and upgrade. It seems that more and more are moving in this direction.

For my money though I would spend just a little more on a starter kit like the L series from EK. This way you get;
* a separate and stronger pump
* all copper parts for no mixed metal problems
* high quality parts that will last a long time through several rebuilds
* Much more flexibility for a better looking and easier to use system

Beware of going too cheap on a kit though as its possible to end up with parts that are cheap for a reason and will very likely need to be replaced anyway, eliminating the initial savings and or pose a real risk to your system.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

A few years ago Martin from liquid labs tested some kits and AIO systems and found minimal difference on the CPU temp results. When it comes down to it one piece of water cooled copper can only be so much better than another. Full custom loops have other benefits besides sheer outright temps.

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/xspc-raystorm-750-rs240-extreme-universal-cpu-water-cooling-kit/6/

So, its pretty easy to say that in a purely for value for money sense the AIO has a genuine advantage especially if its reasonably easy to expand and upgrade. It seems that more and more are moving in this direction.

For my money though I would spend just a little more on a starter kit like the L series from EK. This way you get;
* a separate and stronger pump
* all copper parts for no mixed metal problems
* high quality parts that will last a long time through several rebuilds
* Much more flexibility for a better looking and easier to use system

Beware of going too cheap on a kit though as its possible to end up with parts that are cheap for a reason and will very likely need to be replaced anyway, eliminating the initial savings and or pose a real risk to your system.
That "AiO" also happens to be a Swiftech H220, which is pre-assembled open loop parts. Your wording makes it sound as if some Asetek CLC could keep up with a decent open loop.

As far as kits, in terms of value, XSPC kits give you a lot more for the money than EK.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

That "AiO" also happens to be a Swiftech H220, which is pre-assembled open loop parts. Your wording makes it sound as if some Asetek CLC could keep up with a decent open loop.

As far as kits, in terms of value, XSPC kits give you a lot more for the money than EK.
So are you on the same boat that for value, I am better with a kit than a AIO? Wanna get multiple opinions before plunking money down only to find that the money could have been better spent elsewhere. I will definitely consider XSPC if I go the kit route.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

A few years ago Martin from liquid labs tested some kits and AIO systems and found minimal difference on the CPU temp results. When it comes down to it one piece of water cooled copper can only be so much better than another. Full custom loops have other benefits besides sheer outright temps.

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/xspc-raystorm-750-rs240-extreme-universal-cpu-water-cooling-kit/6/

So, its pretty easy to say that in a purely for value for money sense the AIO has a genuine advantage especially if its reasonably easy to expand and upgrade. It seems that more and more are moving in this direction.

For my money though I would spend just a little more on a starter kit like the L series from EK. This way you get;
* a separate and stronger pump
* all copper parts for no mixed metal problems
* high quality parts that will last a long time through several rebuilds
* Much more flexibility for a better looking and easier to use system

Beware of going too cheap on a kit though as its possible to end up with parts that are cheap for a reason and will very likely need to be replaced anyway, eliminating the initial savings and or pose a real risk to your system.
ok. Thanks for helping me out by letting me know straight up that an Aio is the better value or deal. I will definitely consider kits too since the one recommended isn't drastically more expensive than an aio. Would you say out of all the kits availiable, the L series is the best value too? I am all about value(and if the value is in the most expensive products, I am all for buying it, the value must be there though).
biggrin.gif
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

According to the video your results should be just as good. Remember, these are actual real parts except for the combo pump/heat sink.
The radiator is a real genuine part that is used in or out of a custom loop. The tubing can use standard 1/4 barbs. Just make sure you get the same tubing if you want to expand. The only thing I would suggest you get right up front is some more tubing, 2 angled barbs both of the same diameter, and reservoir and replace the existing coolant with more distilled water and some sort of anti corrosive inhibitor like PT Nuke. Then call it a day.

It's by far cheaper this way and if you want to upgrade to cooling the video card at some future date you already have the tubing and the barbs should be included in a full waterblock (depending on make).
I think your recommendation for the fractal s36 might be the way to go. With it being cheaper and providing similar cooling performance to an expensive custom loop, along with expandability to the gpu, I think we have a winner product over here. Granted, while I haven't watched the video yet due to time constraints, I am gonna take your word for it until I watch it later on. Thanks again for the helpful advice.
thumb.gif
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

I think your recommendation for the fractal s36 might be the way to go. With it being cheaper and providing similar cooling performance to an expensive custom loop, along with expandability to the gpu, I think we have a winner product over here. Granted, while I haven't watched the video yet due to time constraints, I am gonna take your word for it until I watch it later on. Thanks again for the helpful advice.
thumb.gif
If the Swiftech H320-X2 is available in your part of the world, look for that. It offers better performance than the S36, has a reservoir, better pump and block and is truly expandable. The S36 pump (made by Alphacool) has less than half the flow and pressure of the Swiftech and completely flops when you add anything restrictive like a GPU block.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

That "AiO" also happens to be a Swiftech H220, which is pre-assembled open loop parts. Your wording makes it sound as if some Asetek CLC could keep up with a decent open loop.

As far as kits, in terms of value, XSPC kits give you a lot more for the money than EK.
If you looked at the link you would have seen the Corsair H100i is also included. That is the AIO I was refering to.
Also the H220 is far from open loop parts. It is swiftechs own low power pump mounted to a thin copper block not too dissimilar to other AIO's now on the market like Fractals S things. You may be thinking of the H220-X and X2 which do use conventional custom loop parts and are very different things.

The Acetec type AIO's can and do keep up quite closely to open loop parts when tested in similar applications. The H100i was about 2C behind the H220 which was dead even with the Raystorm. The Raystorm has been a good contender with other water blocks for years.

And no, XSPC make some kits that are cheaper for sure but they use lower quality parts that don't last.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

If you looked at the link you would have seen the Corsair H100i is also included. That is the AIO I was refering to.

And no, XSPC make some kits that are cheaper for sure but they use lower quality parts that don't last.
Not true. Excepting the bayres kits, the XSPC kits are very high quality and on par with the EK.
 
#15 ·
And the bayres kits are the cheaper ones

Unless you pat more for the DDC or D5 based kits that are equivalent to EK kit prices you get pumps that don't last, cheap fans, and cheap accessories. They cost less for a reason and value for money is normally not at the bottom end of the market in all products.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

I think your recommendation for the fractal s36 might be the way to go. With it being cheaper and providing similar cooling performance to an expensive custom loop, along with expandability to the gpu, I think we have a winner product over here. Granted, while I haven't watched the video yet due to time constraints, I am gonna take your word for it until I watch it later on. Thanks again for the helpful advice.
thumb.gif
this is never going to happen.
so, ask yourself this simple question, has anyone ever sold a Cadillac, for the price of a Yugo?
a good custom water loop for the CPU is going to cost in the range of $500 so if you want a kit that will actually give you similar performance, that kit is also going to be in that price range.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/extreme-rigs-ultimate-water-cooling-kit.html
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Love you EK fanboys and your assumptions. Carry on, no need for reality in this thread.
So show us this reality then. Which exact kits give us "a lot more for the money than EK"

http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-raystorm-ion-ex360-watercooling-kit-intel-amd-am4.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-kit-s360-premium-watercooling-kit.html

Comparing these two at 199 for the XSPC vs 219 for the EK what is the lot more? They are both pretty low cost and good value. The EK kit includes Vardar fans, tested as some of the best on the market, rather than the cheap XSPC fans. They both include compression fittings. The EK kit gives you a more powerful, upgradable pump/res combo vs the ION. The EK includes the Supremacy MX with its all metal hardware vs the plastic hold down bracket of Raystorm. Both are perfectly good performers.
I'm not seeing a lot more there. Just some slightly cheaper components.

So maybe a bit further up the market?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-kit-l360-watercooling-kit-r2-2.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-raystorm-d5-photon-ax360-watercooling-kit.html
260 for the EK vs 277 for the XSPC

This time we get the Raystorm pro with its all metal hardware like the Supremacy MX. Basically identical rads. An XSPC X4 pump vs a DDC in the EK. The glass res is nice in the XSPC but a real DDC vs a knock off D5 will get my money any day. Fittings are equivalent again but again we get Vardar fans vs the cheapo XSPC.
Again I don't see a whole lot more for the money.

Seems more like a pretty close run thing with personal preferences on individual parts having to split them
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

So show us this reality then. Which exact kits give us "a lot more for the money than EK"

http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-raystorm-ion-ex360-watercooling-kit-intel-amd-am4.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-kit-s360-premium-watercooling-kit.html

Comparing these two at 199 for the XSPC vs 219 for the EK what is the lot more? They are both pretty low cost and good value. The EK kit includes Vardar fans, tested as some of the best on the market, rather than the cheap XSPC fans. They both include compression fittings. The EK kit gives you a more powerful, upgradable pump/res combo vs the ION. The EK includes the Supremacy MX with its all metal hardware vs the plastic hold down bracket of Raystorm. Both are perfectly good performers.
I'm not seeing a lot more there. Just some slightly cheaper components.

So maybe a bit further up the market?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-kit-l360-watercooling-kit-r2-2.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-raystorm-d5-photon-ax360-watercooling-kit.html
260 for the EK vs 277 for the XSPC

This time we get the Raystorm pro with its all metal hardware like the Supremacy MX. Basically identical rads. An XSPC X4 pump vs a DDC in the EK. The glass res is nice in the XSPC but a real DDC vs a knock off D5 will get my money any day. Fittings are equivalent again but again we get Vardar fans vs the cheapo XSPC.
Again I don't see a whole lot more for the money.
I haven't used anything other than EK mainly due availability in my country, that said I have never had an issue with EK either, has always been reliable at least for me
smile.gif
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

this is never going to happen.
so, ask yourself this simple question, has anyone ever sold a Cadillac, for the price of a Yugo?
a good custom water loop for the CPU is going to cost in the range of $500 so if you want a kit that will actually give you similar performance, that kit is also going to be in that price range.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/extreme-rigs-ultimate-water-cooling-kit.html
I've seen you post this load off bull before, $500 is completely asinine for a CPU only loop. The only reason is for it to cost that much is if you're spending money on unnecessary and /or overpriced components, epeen or over the top aesthetics.

A good CPU only loop can easily be had for around $300.

Case in point:

Just add a few 45's or 90's depending on your layout and you're golden.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

I've seen you post this load off bull before, $500 is completely asinine for a CPU only loop. The only reason is for it to cost that much is if you're spending money on unnecessary and /or overpriced components, epeen or over the top aesthetics..
interesting that you would feel that way????

https://imgur.com/a/u3w9v





ok, so if I where to build a simple CPU water loop today this is verbatim what I would buy. the total is $575, so I don't think saying $500 is a stretch at all.

now it would be nice to have a temperature sensor, a flow meter, a nicer drain setup, a fan controller and even some lighting. in fact I have done all of that, to my own build.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1615072/cpu-and-radiator-upgrade-on-water-cooled-rig

I don't consider any of that necessary. it is nice to add to a loop later as a upgrade to the system.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

So maybe a bit further up the market?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-kit-l360-watercooling-kit-r2-2.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-raystorm-d5-photon-ax360-watercooling-kit.html
260 for the EK vs 277 for the XSPC

This time we get the Raystorm pro with its all metal hardware like the Supremacy MX. Basically identical rads. An XSPC X4 pump vs a DDC in the EK. The glass res is nice in the XSPC but a real DDC vs a knock off D5 will get my money any day. Fittings are equivalent again but again we get Vardar fans vs the cheapo XSPC.
Again I don't see a whole lot more for the money.

Seems more like a pretty close run thing with personal preferences on individual parts having to split them
I'll just leave it at the fact that it's a D5 in the XSPC, and X4 is the model number of the Photon. Too blinded by the EK logo to even be bothered to look at what you are basing your argument on. This is why I don't bother with EK fanboys.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

I'll just leave it at the fact that it's a D5 in the XSPC, and X4 is the model number of the Photon. Too blinded by the EK logo to even be bothered to look at what you are basing your argument on. This is why I don't bother with EK fanboys.
My understanding is that all D5 pumps regardless of branding are made by Laing
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

My understanding is that all D5 pumps regardless of branding are made by Laing
They are. There are different PWM circuits used by different manufacturers, but it is the same Laing D5 pump. That is the point I was making. The specs in the link given even state "Laing D5", yet the poster called it a "knockoff".
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by scracy View Post

My understanding is that all D5 pumps regardless of branding are made by Laing
to take this further the alphacool model is the weakest of the D5 pumps I have ever owned only lasting 3 years.

koolance D5 pumps are a little better with a average of 5 years.

switfteck D5 pumps are even better at 7 to 10 years.

aqua computers D5 pumps also last 7 to 10 years.

so to me there is a difference.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top