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AIO vs custom loop - Page 5

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

interesting that you would feel that way????

https://imgur.com/a/u3w9v





ok, so if I where to build a simple CPU water loop today this is verbatim what I would buy. the total is $575, so I don't think saying $500 is a stretch at all.

now it would be nice to have a temperature sensor, a flow meter, a nicer drain setup, a fan controller and even some lighting. in fact I have done all of that, to my own build.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1615072/cpu-and-radiator-upgrade-on-water-cooled-rig

I don't consider any of that necessary. it is nice to add to a loop later as a upgrade to the system.

well this is exactly what I would get, it is every thing that would be needed to build a water loop into any case, regardless of the water loop configuration. if you searched for each of the parts individually online, you could probably find them all at different places for a dollar or two less but the combined shipping costs may not be worth it. I personally buy stuff in $200 to $300 chunks.
these parts take all the guess work out of building a simple CPU water loop. thumb.gif

actually, I would get a better radiator, today I would get the hardware labs SR2 360mm radiator, it is a really nice one.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/hardware-labs-black-ice-sr2-multiport-satin-white-radiator-360mm.html#Features

I noticed on the other thread that you may consider SLI water cooled GPU's at some point. two 360mm radiators can cool two GPU's and a CPU quite well.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1573189/serial-vs-parallel-9-6lpm

I don't like thermaltake but this is a solid case for water cooling.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Vertical-Computer-CA-1H1-00F1WN-00/dp/B01N1GP2GZ/ref=sr_1_7?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1506136751&sr=1-7&refinements=p_4%3AThermaltake

the corsair 900D is a little better quality.

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Obsidian-CC-9011022-WW-System-Cabinet/dp/B00B1R8JT0

the absolute best cases are case labs.

http://www.caselabs-store.com/pc-cases/
Edited by toolmaker03 - 9/23/17 at 1:12am
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

The thing is, I have been hearing from lots of people that AIO doesn't perform that much worse than a custom loop. I have heard lots of arguments that they are both on water and while custom loop may have better quality parts(pump, block, etc.) that it can only cool it better to an extent. In other words, while you are getting quality parts, and thus, better cooling, the price difference doesn't justify it. I can afford to spend the $500 if I desire, but why do it for minimal cooling gains when it can be better spent on a better gpu for example. That's why I look for value, not because I can't afford it, but because the money can be better spent elsewhere.
AIO CLCs do not perform as well as custom loops. Their flow rate is extremely low .. like 40-61 liter / hour.

By comparison Swidtech Hxxx pump has 660 liter / hour flow rate and D5 (most popular custom loop pump) has 1500 liter / hour flow rate.

Swiftech and custom loops all use copper radiators and have fill plug for maintenance .. while CLCs all use aluminum radiators and no fill plug..

While CLCs will cool similar to custom loops and AIOs lke Swiftech, their fans make much more noise doing it .. and their pumps make more noise too.

Swiftech AIOs are $130-215.00.
http://www.swiftech.com/aio.aspx

If you are not in USA you can get Alphacool Aisbaer, be quiet! Silent Loop and Fractal Design Kelvin AIOs. They are much better quality than CLCs and have real fittings, copper radiator and replaceable components.

Here is a chart of AIO (open loop), CLC and D5 pump specs. While not a complete list (CLC OEMs' usually don't publish pump flow and lift specs) it gives you an idea. Notice how much higher Swiftech and D5 pump flow rates and lift rates are. If anyone seeing this has more detailed information please let me know so I can add it .
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/80_20#post_23828310
Edited by doyll - 9/23/17 at 3:38am
post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by comanzo View Post

The thing is, I have been hearing from lots of people that AIO doesn't perform that much worse than a custom loop. I have heard lots of arguments that they are both on water and while custom loop may have better quality parts(pump, block, etc.) that it can only cool it better to an extent. In other words, while you are getting quality parts, and thus, better cooling, the price difference doesn't justify it. I can afford to spend the $500 if I desire, but why do it for minimal cooling gains when it can be better spent on a better gpu for example. That's why I look for value, not because I can't afford it, but because the money can be better spent elsewhere.

This is a bunch of bunk. The only people who will tell you that CLCs (call them what they are....AiO opens up another subset that I will get into) cool as well as custom loops are the fools that bought them that are deluding themselves. No one who has used both regularly will tell you they are close, especially when you take noise into account. CLCs don't even keep up with top tier air very well when noise in factored in. The higher quality of those parts does not simply make them last longer, it makes them cool better with less noise. Copper vs aluminum rad (copper dissipates over twice the heat of aluminum), pumps that move a proper amount of liquid (cooling tails off under 1 gpm, and absolutely nosedives below .5 gpm and CLC pumps sit around half of even that), better blocks transfer the heat from the source to the liquid better, the rads don't need high speed fans to work since they can dissipate heat well, do I need to go on?

If you want the quality of components and still want value, the Swiftech H series is an AiO ("all in one" but not CLC "closed loop cooler"/"cheap liquid cooler"/etc>) that could be a good choice. The pump is strong enough for expansion into a GPU block and second rad (it was designed for exactly this purpose), copper/brass rad, good CPU block. built in res, standard G1/4 fittings. It makes a nice starting point of you don't want to go full custom immediately. Just a little comparison, and note the the fan speeds and noise levels:


post #44 of 68
AIOs, CLCs, and any of the other acronym coolers are garbage compared to a real custom loop. I don't even see why this is a discussion. Some of these kits have better quality parts than others but their prices are nearing custom loop prices. Custom loops don't cost $500+ either. If price is a top concern you could put one together for $200-250. CLCs have temps comparable to top end air coolers and often have noisy components, that's not the same case with real watercooling.
Edited by RX7-2nr - 9/23/17 at 11:11am
post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

ok, so if I where to build a simple CPU water loop today this is verbatim what I would buy. the total is $575, so I don't think saying $500 is a stretch at all.

That's what you think is a simple loop? Looks like you went down the rabbit hole and now you're stuck and trying to lure people in there with you for company.

Lets go over what you've selected here:
  • 25ft of tubing? do you enjoy coiling your tubing up insider your case, because if used properly, there's no way you're going to even use 6 foot for a simple CPU only loop.
  • Unnecessary bitspower fittings galore. There are three kinds of people that use bitspower fittings that way, first are people that are sponsored, second, the ones for which money is no object and third asinine brand loyalists that think bitspower has the only good fittings on the market.
  • 3x garbage grade corsair fans at $17 ea. Why get those when you can get better fans for less??
  • An arguably overkill D5 pump (Its just a CPU only loop!)
  • 360mm radiator, while not as bad as your other choices a 280 is fine for just a CPU and less expensive both the radiator and considering you need 1 fan less.

And you don't even need a drain system for a simple loop, especially if you're using plasticizer free tubing, clear fluid with the right additives and all brass an copper parts, you won't have to drain until after a year maybe even 2 or more. And when you do have to drain it just unscrew your pump, hang it over a bucket and undo a fitting or plug, there loop drained.

While all the stuff you want is nice, its not necessary and certainly doesn't belong in a simple loop.
Edited by Gilles3000 - 9/23/17 at 12:53pm
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

That's what you think is a simple loop? Looks like you went down the rabbit hole and now you're stuck and trying to lure people in there with you for company.

Lets go over what you've selected here:
  • 25ft of tubing? do you enjoy coiling your tubing up insider your case, because if used properly, there's no way you're going to even use 6 foot for a simple CPU only loop.
  • Unnecessary bitspower fittings galore. There are three kinds of people that use bitspower fittings that way, fist are people taht are sponsored, second, the ones for which money is no obect and third asinine brand loyalists that think bitspower is has the only good fittings on the market.
  • 3x garbage grade corsair fans at $17 ea. Why get those when you can get better fans for less??
  • An arguably overkill D5 pump (Its just a CPU only loop!)
  • 360mm radiator, while not as bad as your other choices a 280 is fine for just a CPU and less expensive both the radiator and considering you need 1 fan less.

And you don't even need a drain system for a simple loop, especially if you're using plasticizer free tubing, clear fluid with the right additives and all brass an copper parts, you won't have to drain until after a year maybe even 2 or more. And when you do have to drain it just unscrew your pump, hang it over a bucket and undo a fitting or plug, there loop drained.

While all the stuff you want is nice, its not necessary and certainly doesn't belong in a simple loop.

Agreed. That is totally overkill for a simple CPU only loop, and goes in the opposite direction of the value that the OP is looking for.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Agreed. That is totally overkill for a simple CPU only loop, and goes in the opposite direction of the value that the OP is looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

That's what you think is a simple loop? Looks like you went down the rabbit hole and now you're stuck and trying to lure people in there with you for company.

Lets go over what you've selected here:
  • 25ft of tubing? do you enjoy coiling your tubing up insider your case, because if used properly, there's no way you're going to even use 6 foot for a simple CPU only loop.
  • Unnecessary bitspower fittings galore. There are three kinds of people that use bitspower fittings that way, first are people that are sponsored, second, the ones for which money is no object and third asinine brand loyalists that think bitspower has the only good fittings on the market.
  • 3x garbage grade corsair fans at $17 ea. Why get those when you can get better fans for less??
  • An arguably overkill D5 pump (Its just a CPU only loop!)
  • 360mm radiator, while not as bad as your other choices a 280 is fine for just a CPU and less expensive both the radiator and considering you need 1 fan less.

And you don't even need a drain system for a simple loop, especially if you're using plasticizer free tubing, clear fluid with the right additives and all brass an copper parts, you won't have to drain until after a year maybe even 2 or more. And when you do have to drain it just unscrew your pump, hang it over a bucket and undo a fitting or plug, there loop drained.

While all the stuff you want is nice, its not necessary and certainly doesn't belong in a simple loop.

wow tearing into me pretty hard here.

at least allow me to express my opinion, before you decide to burn me at the stake.
I will start with the tubing while I will agree that 10 feet should be enough, most people mess up, or even change the loop configuration entirely, before they have the loop the way they want it. 25 feet of tubing covers all of that
the fittings are what I would buy not because there expensive but because bits power and barrow are the only companies that make rotary fittings that will not leak.
now I will explain what I mean by that statement. almost all rotary fittings are good for one build of the water loop. my builds get taken apart on the average every 3 years. so in a ten year period my loop will be assembled and dissembled 3 times, that also means that I am turning my rotary fittings a total of 6 times.
alpha cool rotary fittings are good for 2 to 3 assemblies and disassembles before the will leak.
EK and XSPC rotary fittings are good for 5 to 6 assemblies and disassembles before they will leak.
bits power and barrow rotary fittings are good for 20+ assemblies and disassembles before they will leak.
hay if you have a better fan than by all means list them, I have lots of the corsair fans they are quite at 1000RPM's and they last for a good 7 to 10 years so I can't complain.
well all I have are D5 pumps they last 7 to 10 years, this water loop at some point will also have a GPU in the loop possibly two GPU's, a D5 is a good pump.
there is nothing wrong with a 360mm radiator when considering that the water loop at some point will be expanded. thumb.gif
well your right, my first water loops did not have a drain in them and the water loop functioned just fine, but after the first loop I built with a drain, I found that they are really nice to have. biggrin.gif .
Edited by toolmaker03 - 9/23/17 at 1:39pm
post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

That's what you think is a simple loop? Looks like you went down the rabbit hole and now you're stuck and trying to lure people in there with you for company.

Lets go over what you've selected here:
  • 25ft of tubing? do you enjoy coiling your tubing up insider your case, because if used properly, there's no way you're going to even use 6 foot for a simple CPU only loop.
  • Unnecessary bitspower fittings galore. There are three kinds of people that use bitspower fittings that way, first are people that are sponsored, second, the ones for which money is no object and third asinine brand loyalists that think bitspower has the only good fittings on the market.
  • 3x garbage grade corsair fans at $17 ea. Why get those when you can get better fans for less??
  • An arguably overkill D5 pump (Its just a CPU only loop!)
  • 360mm radiator, while not as bad as your other choices a 280 is fine for just a CPU and less expensive both the radiator and considering you need 1 fan less.

And you don't even need a drain system for a simple loop, especially if you're using plasticizer free tubing, clear fluid with the right additives and all brass an copper parts, you won't have to drain until after a year maybe even 2 or more. And when you do have to drain it just unscrew your pump, hang it over a bucket and undo a fitting or plug, there loop drained.

While all the stuff you want is nice, its not necessary and certainly doesn't belong in a simple loop.

I agree with you on everything except the D5, even though its a CPU only loop a quality pump isn't something to cheap out on. I could trim probably $200 off his list though. $30 for a ball valve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

alpha cool rotary fittings are good for 2 to 3 assemblies and disassembles before the will leak.
EK and XSPC rotary fittings are good for 5 to 6 assemblies and disassembles before they will leak.
bits power and barrow rotary fittings are good for 20+ assemblies and disassembles before they will leak.
You keep making statements like this. Where are you getting this data? The last time it was lifespans of various branded D5s and it didn't make much sense then either.
Edited by RX7-2nr - 9/23/17 at 1:39pm
post #49 of 68
doublepostin
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX7-2nr View Post

I agree with you on everything except the D5, even though its a CPU only loop a quality pump isn't something to cheap out on. I could trim probably $200 off his list though. $30 for a ball valve?
You keep making statements like this. Where are you getting this data? The last time it was lifespans of various branded D5s and it didn't make much sense then either.

well because I have owned the various rotary fittings by several companies and used them on my builds and replaced them when they started leaking. I don't mean just one from each company but 10+ from each. I still have some EK and XSPC rotary fittings that have not started leaking yet.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1584867/tec-chill-box-chamber-build-log

if you go through the pics of this build log you will see the fittings they have been through 3 assemblies, and disassembles already, so they have a couple of more before I will have to replace them because they started leaking. I will replace them with barrow or bits power fittings. it's not that I am unwilling to give a company a shot hell I would love to save some money on fittings but the reality is that I am saving money on fittings by staying with bits power and barrow for all my rotary fitting needs.
Edited by toolmaker03 - 9/23/17 at 2:02pm
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