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[Various] Citron Calls Ubiquiti Networks A 'Total Fraud'

2K views 30 replies 25 participants last post by  Tribalinius 
#1 ·
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/18/short-seller-andrew-left-calls-ubiquiti-his-next-big-fraud.html

https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/17/09/10069465/citron-calls-ubiquiti-networks-a-total-fraud
Quote:
SAN DIEGO, Sept. 19, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- Shareholder Rights Law Firm Johnson Fistel, LLP is investigating potential violations of the federal securities laws by Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. (NASDAQ: UBNT) ("Ubiquiti") and certain of its officers. Ubiquiti develops networking technology for service providers, enterprises, and consumers worldwide.

On September 18, 2017, before the opening of trading, Andrew Left, managing editor of Citron Research (" Citron") published a report entitled "Citron Exposes Ubiquity Networks," wherein Left detailed a series of alarming "red flags" suggesting that the Company was a "total fraud."
Citron report here:

http://www.citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-ubiquiti-networks/

This is fairly big news, enough to cause a sell off which has somewhat rebounded today. Not just rumor and hearsay.
 
#2 ·
Could it be that they're doing really well because they occupy a market segment that nobody else really caters to?

You've got Cisco on the top end, Netgear/Asus/Linksys/Dlink on the bottom, with nothing in between except for Ubiquiti and Microtik and a few other really small players. Dlink makes trash networking gear even in their higher end stuff, and Netgear's switches are kind of crap too.

There's been a gaping hole in the networking market for years, power users that don't need Cisco enterprise equipment but want something similar for less. It wasn't until Ubiquiti came along that there was something out there like the Edgerouter series + the UniFi stuff.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Ubiquiti has become a "company on the run"

Ask shareholders where Ubiquiti is based and you will hear San Jose. WRONG. Two months ago without any notice Ubiquiti vacated its San Jose office. This is what the lobby looks like now (just three months ago the photo on left was filled with office furniture and people)…with an empty parking lot in the middle of the day
Yikes. That smells like a shell.
 
#4 ·
huh...right as i just finished overhauling my network with ubiquiti stuff.
 
#7 ·
Not that I think this is necessarily happening in this case but this article reads like a hit piece by someone who just put in a big Short.
tongue.gif


Why the over the top formatting and sensationalist attitude?

I hadn't even heard of Ubiquiti before, I am only looking at 10GbE hardware and haven't seen anything from them that I remember.
 
#8 ·
This whole thing is literally an attack on Ubiquity/ Robert Pera. Their networking hardware is top notch and is definitely in a different tier than others. I'm with @Asmodian here. Smells of someone trying to push their agenda.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

Not that I think this is necessarily happening in this case but this article reads like a hit piece by someone who just put in a big Short.
tongue.gif
^^^^This

After reading the article it doesnt seem to have any substantial information in it at all. Only "there are warning signs" and "someone else who did something bad used the same word once". Dont forget hundreds of thousands of other people and companies also use the word. As for the community, if you have been to the Network section on this website, pfsense, [H]ardforum, etc etc then you will see that what Ubiquiti says is completely true. The advertising for their products is done extensively by the userbase.
The article is nothing more than a hit piece meant to stir up fear and try to hurt Ubiquiti.

Actually, what this guy is doing is fraud itself. He is known to be a "short seller" and that is exactly what he is doing with Ubiquiti stock. And now puts this hit piece out to try and cause a panic and plummet the stock price so he can make a ton of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

I hadn't even heard of Ubiquiti before, I am only looking at 10GbE hardware and haven't seen anything from them that I remember.
They typically make wireless access points and good routers, but they have very little 10 gigabit stuff because they focus mainly on the very cheap to produce stuff that they can sell for a good bit of money. (Actually, something the article tries to discredit as being not true but really is exactly the case). Anyway, they have a just released product that was in beta for the past 6 months that you may be interested in: It is a top of the line router that blows away nearly everything on the market and competes with the extremely high end of Cisco and Juniper. It is a 16 core, 16GB RAM router with all 10 gigabit SFP+ network ports. It sells for $1600 but for the power it is actually a great deal. Those who were lucky enough to snag one from their beta store got a steal, it was being sold for $500 earlier this year for the beta version
thumb.gif

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-infinity/
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

^^^^This

After reading the article it doesnt seem to have any substantial information in it at all. Only "there are warning signs" and "someone else who did something bad used the same word once". Dont forget hundreds of thousands of other people and companies also use the word. As for the community, if you have been to the Network section on this website, pfsense, [H]ardforum, etc etc then you will see that what Ubiquiti says is completely true. The advertising for their products is done extensively by the userbase.
The article is nothing more than a hit piece meant to stir up fear and try to hurt Ubiquiti.

Actually, what this guy is doing is fraud itself. He is known to be a "short seller" and that is exactly what he is doing with Ubiquiti stock. And now puts this hit piece out to try and cause a panic and plummet the stock price so he can make a ton of money.
They typically make wireless access points and good routers, but they have very little 10 gigabit stuff because they focus mainly on the very cheap to produce stuff that they can sell for a good bit of money. (Actually, something the article tries to discredit as being not true but really is exactly the case). Anyway, they have a just released product that was in beta for the past 6 months that you may be interested in: It is a top of the line router that blows away nearly everything on the market and competes with the extremely high end of Cisco and Juniper. It is a 16 core, 16GB RAM router with all 10 gigabit SFP+ network ports. It sells for $1600 but for the power it is actually a great deal. Those who were lucky enough to snag one from their beta store got a steal, it was being sold for $500 earlier this year for the beta version
thumb.gif

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-infinity/
While that is a nice peice of hardware, Mine does better and it's homebrew
tongue.gif
still though can't fault the price on that.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch13f121 View Post

Could it be that they're doing really well because they occupy a market segment that nobody else really caters to?

You've got Cisco on the top end, Netgear/Asus/Linksys/Dlink on the bottom, with nothing in between except for Ubiquiti and Microtik and a few other really small players. Dlink makes trash networking gear even in their higher end stuff, and Netgear's switches are kind of crap too.

There's been a gaping hole in the networking market for years, power users that don't need Cisco enterprise equipment but want something similar for less. It wasn't until Ubiquiti came along that there was something out there like the Edgerouter series + the UniFi stuff.
Well ya know at least with netgear you get igmpv3, IPv6, SNMPv3 etc.. can't say that about UBNTs inability to keep up or even implement standards. Im running mostly unifi gear at home (USGPRO, USW, Cloudkey, etc..) so I'm not a UBNT hater, but they are pretty behind.
 
#16 ·
Got an AP from them in my house. Works awesome. Near enterprise quality and features for a decent price.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

^^^^This

After reading the article it doesnt seem to have any substantial information in it at all. Only "there are warning signs" and "someone else who did something bad used the same word once". Dont forget hundreds of thousands of other people and companies also use the word. As for the community, if you have been to the Network section on this website, pfsense, [H]ardforum, etc etc then you will see that what Ubiquiti says is completely true. The advertising for their products is done extensively by the userbase.
The article is nothing more than a hit piece meant to stir up fear and try to hurt Ubiquiti.

Actually, what this guy is doing is fraud itself. He is known to be a "short seller" and that is exactly what he is doing with Ubiquiti stock. And now puts this hit piece out to try and cause a panic and plummet the stock price so he can make a ton of money.
They typically make wireless access points and good routers, but they have very little 10 gigabit stuff because they focus mainly on the very cheap to produce stuff that they can sell for a good bit of money. (Actually, something the article tries to discredit as being not true but really is exactly the case). Anyway, they have a just released product that was in beta for the past 6 months that you may be interested in: It is a top of the line router that blows away nearly everything on the market and competes with the extremely high end of Cisco and Juniper. It is a 16 core, 16GB RAM router with all 10 gigabit SFP+ network ports. It sells for $1600 but for the power it is actually a great deal. Those who were lucky enough to snag one from their beta store got a steal, it was being sold for $500 earlier this year for the beta version
thumb.gif

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-infinity/
Unless you're taking a full BGP routing table, why the hell do you need 16GB RAM? or 16 core.

Yes it's good value but what for?

No serious ISP is using one of these as their peering router, there is literally no other use case that matches the spec.
 
#18 ·
I've watched that video of their CEO twice now.

Received his inspiration for a new Go-Pro type "chest piece" camera by observing and admiring some medallions worn by Jay -Z.

...

..... (? This guy is the CEO?)

..........

Yeah, um... I'm good with my Cisco gear, thanks for playing.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRichard View Post

I've watched that video of their CEO twice now.

Received his inspiration for a new Go-Pro type "chest piece" camera by observing and admiring some medallions worn by Jay -Z.

...

..... (? This guy is the CEO?)

..........

Yeah, um... I'm good with my Cisco gear, thanks for playing.
Yeah lol, that camera is going to tank. Nothing like hopping on the downward trend on a fad with some gaudy take on it. Not sure what they are thinking, mind boggling.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunneY View Post

This whole thing is literally an attack on Ubiquity/ Robert Pera. Their networking hardware is top notch and is definitely in a different tier than others. I'm with @Asmodian here. Smells of someone trying to push their agenda.
qft.

Have used Ubiquity for years, both personallyand in the companies I have workedfor, and there products are great and getter better every generation.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrillex View Post

Unless you're taking a full BGP routing table, why the hell do you need 16GB RAM? or 16 core.

Yes it's good value but what for?

No serious ISP is using one of these as their peering router, there is literally no other use case that matches the spec.
The cores and the RAM are not just for routing tables, but because of the eight, 10gb interfaces. You need a good bit of power to route full throughput on such connections and having eight of them means some beastly hardware. That router is not only rated for 18 million packets per second of routing, but also will reach its 80 gigabit L3 rating with standard packet sizes, not jumbo packets.

It isnt really designed for the big company, regional ISPs you would typically think about. Ubiquiti has two userbases: the tech enthusiests on these types of websites around the world, and small company ISPs that specialize in providing wireless internet access directly to a location or point to point wireless LAN between locations for companies. Their products are used quite extensively by these small ISPs who provide better service and lower costs in their localized areas than the regional ISPs.
 
#22 ·
Ubiquiti's APs are fantastic for the price. I've used them in my home and professionally at businesses and schools. 99$ Ubiquiti APs vs Cisco 600$ APs....obviously the Cisco will bring more to the table.

But for the price Ubiquiti APs are really reliable and the management software is really good.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by {core2duo}werd View Post

I've been using Ubiquity hardware for years. It's been as good or better than much more expensive wireless equipment. I really hope to be able to keep using it lol.
My time as a WISP we deployed thousands of Ubiquiti radios, they work damn well for their price point. Hopefully they aren't going anywhere....

Turns out they have moved headquarters to New York, and are taking a more "Decentralized" management style. Which to me sounds like they are on the run and won't be around for very much longer. Hopefully not, but something isn't right.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

My time as a WISP we deployed thousands of Ubiquiti radios, they work damn well for their price point. Hopefully they aren't going anywhere....

Turns out they have moved headquarters to New York, and are taking a more "Decentralized" management style. Which to me sounds like they are on the run and won't be around for very much longer. Hopefully not, but something isn't right.
I hope not. They are the best priced APs.

It is strange though.....
 
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