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[VC] Intel Core i9-7980XE 18-core early benchmarks - Page 13

post #121 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

It really just depends on how easily the DMI 3.0 link can be saturated, which is essentially just a PCI x4 link. So you go with a single x16 GPU, say a x4 NVMe (maybe, there's no rush for NVMe over SSD on mainstream systems right now).

Depending on whether you get a better network card (10G for example), more GPUs for whatever workload, more concurrent storage that either uses SATA that is strictly on the chipset or NVMe that goes through the chipset PCIe instead of the CPU directly. Plus all other peripherals such as Intel's onboard LAN card, HD Audio, all your USB connections...

That chipset is only as good as its weakest link, which is the DMI link at x4 speed. It may not matter for most people, granted. But it is something to think about if we're talking strictly I/O.

X299 is not compatible to 10Gb/s network, so you will have to use up PCIE directly to the CPU, so you are fine, unless the motherboard vendor put it under the extra 24 PCIE lanes.

DMI 3.0 is compatible to about 4GB/s. So for the most part, it is more than enough for storage, network, several USBs, audio, etc.

If you try to run raid with 8 SSDs at raid 0 plus transfer that data over network though the chipset plus try to hear a full uncompressed sound plus try to copy data from all 10 USB 3.0 possible ports, and find a motherboard that allows you all of that at the same time, you might feel the bottle neck of the chipset.

But if we are honest, come on. This is not going to bother 99.99999% of users. Even workstation users.
We have not hit the DMI 3.0 for years now, and it didn't really bother anyone coming yelling "I need more lanes!!!". So it is understandable that intel are just keeping with the same design.
Once PCIE 4.0 comes out, that is going to most likely get twice the bandwidth, and still not going to be a problem.
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post #122 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

But for any other work, that is not gaming, like Octane, CAD and such, multi GPU is a must. Even if its not full 4 cards, you still need at least 2, plus SSD, and other stuff.

And for that, 44 lanes from the CPU and 24 more from X299, is way more than enough.
Even PCIE SSD don't need the full x16, so if you put 2 GPUs + PCIE SSD + another card, you still end up with extra lanes unused.
Quote:
Also, weren't the PCI lanes on Intel 28 from CPU and 16 from the chipset? Unlike TR, which had 60 from the CPU and 4 from the chipset.
X299 has 24 PCIE 3.0 lanes. And that is static for all CPUs on that system.

The "low end" CPUs for the x299 platform have up to 28 (those under 10 core). The rest have 44 from the CPU.
I suggest you actually read CPU specifications. I have no idea where you information is coming from. Definitely not from looking at the specs.
Combined, potentially, intel has 52 pice lanes on the i7 78xxX versions, and 68 on the i7 79xxX versions.

TR has 60 directly to the CPU, which are 48 to GPUs/extention dedicated (not whatever you want them to), 4 for storage (for one m.2), and 8 for peripherals directly to the CPU, and extra 4 for the chipset.

It does not have 60 lanes "do whatever you want with them" type of lanes. They are all hardwired specific to certain tasks just like everything else.
The X399 has another non dedicated x4, and a few dedicated ones (like lan connections, USBs, storage etc).
If you look at the overall count and usage, TR has nothing special about it in terms of PCIE lanes count. They put them like that because it is several ryzen chips, but are also marketing them like that for well, people like you to say "oh but it has 60!" without knowing what it means.
Quote:
Normal people do not need ECC. Yes, most of the business as well. But for long calculations, databases loaded directly into the RAM while being crunched on, and few other things, you do need ECC.
And for that, you will get a xeon based workstation. You will not run those on your OCed system which will be less reliable.

No. It very explicitly DOES have that, in X16/x16/x8/x8/x4/x4/x4 config, with four lanes going to the chipset. The three x4s are dedicated to M.2, yes, but you can use aaaaanything you like in the remaining lanes, and they are NOT dedicated to USB, networking, or anything like it.


Intel on the other hand has 44 lanes, and "24" from the chipset but the chipset is only connected via a DMI 3.0 link which is.... you guessed it, the same speed as a PCI-e 3.0 x4 link.


Except, unlike AMD, the majority of your M.2 drives go to the chipset;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

It really just depends on how easily the DMI 3.0 link can be saturated, which is essentially just a PCI x4 link. So you go with a single x16 GPU, say a x4 NVMe (maybe, there's no rush for NVMe over SSD on mainstream systems right now).

Depending on whether you get a better network card (10G for example), more GPUs for whatever workload, more concurrent storage that either uses SATA that is strictly on the chipset or NVMe that goes through the chipset PCIe instead of the CPU directly. Plus all other peripherals such as Intel's onboard LAN card, HD Audio, all your USB connections...

That chipset is only as good as its weakest link, which is the DMI link at x4 speed. It may not matter for most people, granted. But it is something to think about if we're talking strictly I/O.

X299 is not compatible to 10Gb/s network, so you will have to use up PCIE directly to the CPU, so you are fine, unless the motherboard vendor put it under the extra 24 PCIE lanes.

DMI 3.0 is compatible to about 4GB/s. So for the most part, it is more than enough for storage, network, several USBs, audio, etc.

If you try to run raid with 8 SSDs at raid 0 plus transfer that data over network though the chipset plus try to hear a full uncompressed sound plus try to copy data from all 10 USB 3.0 possible ports, and find a motherboard that allows you all of that at the same time, you might feel the bottle neck of the chipset.

But if we are honest, come on. This is not going to bother 99.99999% of users. Even workstation users.
We have not hit the DMI 3.0 for years now, and it didn't really bother anyone coming yelling "I need more lanes!!!". So it is understandable that intel are just keeping with the same design.
Once PCIE 4.0 comes out, that is going to most likely get twice the bandwidth, and still not going to be a problem.

My LAN card does 2.5GB/s and my SSD does 3.5GB/s. If both were off the PCH there would be a problem.

Skylake X allows for NVMe RAID... From the PCH. Done, DMI is saturated.
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post #123 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Skylake X allows for NVMe RAID... From the PCH. Done, DMI is saturated.

AMD does allow Threadripper NVMe Raid with 27GB throughput, which is similar to Ramdisk performance.

Der8auer had a video yesterday about it (8 drives), but pulled for couple of days until AMD makes the drivers public.
post #124 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

X299 is not compatible to 10Gb/s network, so you will have to use up PCIE directly to the CPU, so you are fine, unless the motherboard vendor put it under the extra 24 PCIE lanes.

DMI 3.0 is compatible to about 4GB/s. So for the most part, it is more than enough for storage, network, several USBs, audio, etc.

If you try to run raid with 8 SSDs at raid 0 plus transfer that data over network though the chipset plus try to hear a full uncompressed sound plus try to copy data from all 10 USB 3.0 possible ports, and find a motherboard that allows you all of that at the same time, you might feel the bottle neck of the chipset.

But if we are honest, come on. This is not going to bother 99.99999% of users. Even workstation users.
We have not hit the DMI 3.0 for years now, and it didn't really bother anyone coming yelling "I need more lanes!!!". So it is understandable that intel are just keeping with the same design.
Once PCIE 4.0 comes out, that is going to most likely get twice the bandwidth, and still not going to be a problem.

Didn't know it wasn't compatible, I don't pay much attention to Intel chipsets. I was just using off the cuff examples.

I also added the qualifier at the end that it won't matter for most users, so I don't know why you're berating me for something I already said. rolleyessmileyanim.gif
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post #125 of 228
Out of the box x299 only supports raid 0. All my workstations I manage are setup in a mirror raid. I will be sticking with x99 until Zen 14nm+ when we refresh. Servers have their own LSI cards.
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post #126 of 228
People here are now blurring lines between high performance desktop class processors/chipsets... and professional workstation class hardware which typically use server class hardware designed to have massive IO and extremely reliable operation... Combined with dual socket options for a pair of high core count Xeons...

I don't see how whether 10Gbe or various RAID levels being natively compatible with X299 are points worth using as fuel for comparison. If you need serious RAID, then you should be using a high end hardware card, or something modern in software like ZFS. And if you need 10gig ethernet then you'll likely be using a PCI-E adapter as well from the likes of intel, Q logic or broadcom.

If you find yourself needing these things then I'd suggest intel HEDT is not for you... Go and look at high end HP or Dell workstations instead.

In a professional space, you won't be overclocking. Performance out of the box counts, not what you might be able to achieve if you up the volts and put it under water then add in a million PCI-E cards. You will buy a machine suitable for the job instead.

Something like this:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z840.html

Specs galore....

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/business-solutions/z840-workstation?jumpid=cp_r11400_us/en/ips/business_desktops/workstation/buynowZ840#!&vao=+

Im just trying to say here.... These 'High end desktop' platforms.... are NOT workstation replacements.
Edited by The_Rocker - 9/26/17 at 9:02am
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post #127 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rocker View Post

People here are now blurring lines between high performance desktop class processors/chipsets... and professional workstation class hardware which typically use server class hardware designed to have massive IO and extremely reliable operation... Combined with dual socket options for a pair of high core count Xeons...

I don't see how whether 10Gbe or various RAID levels being natively compatible with X299 are points worth using as fuel for comparison. If you need serious RAID, then you should be using a high end hardware card, or something modern in software like ZFS. And if you need 10gig ethernet then you'll likely be using a PCI-E adapter as well from the likes of intel, Q logic or broadcom.

If you find yourself needing these things then I'd suggest intel HEDT is not for you... Go and look at high end HP or Dell workstations instead.

In a professional space, you won't be overclocking. Performance out of the box counts, not what you might be able to achieve if you up the volts and put it under water then add in a million PCI-E cards. You will buy a machine suitable for the job instead.

Something like this:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z840.html

Specs galore....

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/business-solutions/z840-workstation?jumpid=cp_r11400_us/en/ips/business_desktops/workstation/buynowZ840#!&vao=+

Im just trying to say here.... These 'High end desktop' platforms.... are NOT workstation replacements.

TIL that 44 lanes is only for GPUs... Oh wait, no, it's for anything we put in them.

Intel keeping it's NVMe RAID locked down (lol) and limited to the PCH is, in comparison to X399, a design disadvantage. I have two GPUs, an M.2 SSD, a PCI-e SSD, a dual-nic 10gbps card, and a sound card. On HEDT. Comparing which platform I go for in the future absolutely includes which one can fit all the stuff I want.
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post #128 of 228
Guys so will 4x GPUs PLUS 3x NVMe SSD (960 Pro in RAID-0) work on the RVIE with this CPU?

44 lanes means...40 lanes for GPUs but only 4 lanes for an NVMe SSD - meaning only ONE? rolleyes.gif
     
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post #129 of 228
I got a notification from newegg that the RVIE is in stock.

Also, I've seen one third party seller on newegg and ebay selling the Asus hyper M.2 x16 card (he's sold out now). But I'm assuming if this guy has it that amazon and newegg will be getting them soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baasha View Post

Guys so will 4x GPUs PLUS 3x NVMe SSD (960 Pro in RAID-0) work on the RVIE with this CPU?

44 lanes means...40 lanes for GPUs but only 4 lanes for an NVMe SSD - meaning only ONE? rolleyes.gif

I'm hoping that Asus does a x299 version of the WS boards, if done like the x99 board, you'd be able to run all four cards at x16 and run all three M.2's at full speed (as long as you don't mind PLX chips).
post #130 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticial View Post

I'm also amazed by that. And looking over at the Skylake X thread, there seems to be no shortage of people waiting specifically for the 7980XE. And those waiting for it seem to have absolutely no qualms about spending that much.

Intel should bring down the XCC line* and sell overclockable versions for something stupid like 5k - 10k or even higher. I'm very curious to see exactly how price-insensitive the extreme high-end is. They could probably sell soldiered versions of the same chips for another absurd price premium on top of that to see how much demand those get.

At some point, it basically falls into the same category as jewelry and luxury cars. Virtually no upper-bound on price and people will buy them anyway as a status symbol.

*The XCC die won't fit in the X299 socket, but looking into the future they can definitely make it happen in one way or another if there was money to be made...


I wouldn't be so sure of that. The XCC die is "only" a ~610mm2 die compared to ~480mm2 for the HCC 12-18 core die, or ~320mm2 for the "LCC" 6-10 core die.

The 480mm2 HCC die is only a 50% increase in width, while retaining identical length, to the LCC 320mm2 die. Likewise, the 610mm2 die just retains the same 50% extra width of the HCC die while also adding an additional ~30% length. iirc the length of the HCC and LCC dies is ~22mm, so a 30% increase would be ~28.5mm so not all that much bigger; and if you look at the HCC die in the delid photos online you can see that the extra width was easy to achieve and that there seems to be a fair bit of extra space for that ~6.5mm of extra length with the only possible complication seeming to be potential relocation of a couple caps on the edge etc..

However while it definitely seems possible for the XCC die to FIT in a 2066 socket, the question then comes whether anything on the planet short of DICE/LN2/LHE etc.. can properly COOL a 610mm2 28 core behemoth with how we already have trouble with high temps and power usage as things stand now. There'd have to be a pretty massive overhaul of the VRMs, EPSV 12v connectors (you'd need at least a dual 8 pin to provide the kind of power necessary plus you may have trouble with wire gauge since some people reported wires getting disturbingly hot on high voltage SK-X chips already)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5960X ASUS Rampage V Extreme MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X 16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666mhz DDR4 C15 
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Mayhem's Pastel Ice White Coolant Coollaboratory Liquid Copper TIM XSPC EX480mm Radiator Black Ice GTX 360mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK XTC 420mm Radiator Swiftech MCP655-B 12v Pump EK RES X3 250 Reservoir Bitspower/EK 3/8" x 1/2" Compression fitting 
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EVGA Supernova G2 1000 Caselabs SMA8 -XXL Window, Ventilated sides/t... Razer Ouroboros Norman Rockwell collection series print Mousepad 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5960X ASUS Rampage V Extreme MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X 16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2666mhz DDR4 C15 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
PNY CS2211 MLC SATA III SSD WD Blue 500GB 7200rpm Writemaster DVD/CD +/- RW EK Supremacy EVO 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Mayhem's Pastel Ice White Coolant Coollaboratory Liquid Copper TIM XSPC EX480mm Radiator Black Ice GTX 360mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK XTC 420mm Radiator Swiftech MCP655-B 12v Pump EK RES X3 250 Reservoir Bitspower/EK 3/8" x 1/2" Compression fitting 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 8.1 ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q 27" 1440p 144hz G-Sync ASUS VG23AH 23.5" Passive 3d 1080p 60hz  Razer Blackwidow Chroma Tournament Edition 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
EVGA Supernova G2 1000 Caselabs SMA8 -XXL Window, Ventilated sides/t... Razer Ouroboros Norman Rockwell collection series print Mousepad 
AudioAudio
Sennheiser HD700 300ohm Open Back Headphones SupremeFX Hi-Fi 5.25" Bay AMP/DAC  
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Reply
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