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post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx1586 View Post

yup foolish cept theirs tons and tons of ppl and professional you-tubers that have done it with out issue right? along with ppl that have ran these pumps and loops for YEARS with no issues at all? if a system is rated for 120k hours it means its been tested to last that long doesn't matter brand of price. i would probably say most AOI run 200-300 LPH or so which should be enough for a full custom loop

but this topic was about two pumps affecting each other not to criticize my plan/goal with my comp so thanks
This topic about as logical as trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, then thinking if you use 2x sows' ears you can make them into a $10,000 designer handbag. CLCs are made as cheaply as is possible and still work.

How many people is "tons of ppl"? What makes "professional you-tubers"who make all kinds of scientific claims and expect us to believe them because the are 'famous'.

While you can claim the Malstrorm 240T is a AIO, it is really a CLC. CLC is a specific kind of AIO that is manufactured in such a way as to have no fill port, no threaded fittings, and no removable or replaceable components. CLCs were originally called LCLC .. for Low Cost Liquid Cooler. They are made to the absolute lowest possible standards and quality that will still manage to cool the component they are installed on .. and to keep running just long enough so consumer does not take legal action against brand name and/or manufacturer. Their warranty period is simple marketing ploy to dupe consumer into thinking the will last a long time. There are twice as many 'tons of ppl' who have had them fail. as you have 'tons of ppl'.

What few CLCs that do have published specs flow from 40-61 L/h .. with only ID Cooling Frostflow being 96 L/h and Enermax Liqtech TR4 being 450 L/h (no idea who makes them).

Maybe this will help you understand why everyone keeps telling you to not try expanding our CLC"
AIO is a very large parent group name for pre assembled and filled liquid coolers, but all but a few are really members of the CLC sub-group .. liquid coolers that originally were called LCLC for Low Cost Liquid Cooler. They all use aluminum radiators, very low flow rate and head pumps, and have no provision for maintenance or expansion. Here's a chart of AIO, CLC and custom loop D5 pump specs. It is not complete because it is almost impossible to find CLC pump flow rate and lift specifications. If anyone has information not included, please let me know.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/80_20#post_23828310
Edited by doyll - 9/23/17 at 3:18am
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx1586 View Post

lastly im not to worried about order but thank you for clearing up its 120 per plus a xtra 120 to cover jaystwocents said its 240 per so thats what i was going off but again not like my unit is some crazy OC beats maxing temps or anything

Jay says 120 per plus 120. Proof:

https://youtu.be/gohE6cytlFU?t=5m15s
post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazeshifta View Post

Jay says 120 per plus 120. Proof:

https://youtu.be/gohE6cytlFU?t=5m15s

You know he is talking about copper rads there, not aluminum.....right? Takes twice as much aluminum to dissipate as much as copper.
post #14 of 43
Just a quick glance at their product page and it says it's an aluminum fin array so not sure about the actual rad core. I'd guess it's probably aluminum as well considering its a clc.

You got fairly defensive in your response to people giving you advice and I get it. Sometimes on here some tend to push for a far more expensive route than you want to go. In this case, however, they are right. This cooler was never meant to be expanded in the ways you want to do it. You can't, easily at least, just add a second clc and res. I mean you could but it's gonna require some serious modding of the cooler that will certainly void your warranty and is a very serious risk of leaking.

Either stick with your cooler as is, cool your cpu with it and be happy, or move to an AIO that IS designed to be expanded like the swiftech the one user mentioned. Or buy a kit that includes real custom water cooled components. They aren't a lot of money, and are leaps and bounds better than clc's.

No one is saying you have to spend a grand on liquid cooling gear but to cheap out and try to doctor up a pair AIOs to work together is begging for trouble.

The fact you keep calling it AOIs shows your lack of knowledge on this subject. I wrote the first off as a typo but you used it like 4 times.

Not flaming you here. Just saying you should consider the info people, who have been down this road before, are offering you.
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post #15 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyve View Post

Just a quick glance at their product page and it says it's an aluminum fin array so not sure about the actual rad core. I'd guess it's probably aluminum as well considering its a clc.

You got fairly defensive in your response to people giving you advice and I get it. Sometimes on here some tend to push for a far more expensive route than you want to go. In this case, however, they are right. This cooler was never meant to be expanded in the ways you want to do it. You can't, easily at least, just add a second clc and res. I mean you could but it's gonna require some serious modding of the cooler that will certainly void your warranty and is a very serious risk of leaking.

Either stick with your cooler as is, cool your cpu with it and be happy, or move to an AIO that IS designed to be expanded like the swiftech the one user mentioned. Or buy a kit that includes real custom water cooled components. They aren't a lot of money, and are leaps and bounds better than clc's.

No one is saying you have to spend a grand on liquid cooling gear but to cheap out and try to doctor up a pair AIOs to work together is begging for trouble.

The fact you keep calling it AOIs shows your lack of knowledge on this subject. I wrote the first off as a typo but you used it like 4 times.

Not flaming you here. Just saying you should consider the info people, who have been down this road before, are offering you.
i get what your trying to say politely but your all still wrong so you guys can keep thinking ur all smarter then everyone online but your not

http://www.corsair.com/en-ww/blog/2014/april/aio_vs_diy_cooling

the deffinition of a aoi is what ur calling a CLC they are the same thing and the only difference between a AOI/CLC and a custom loop useally is a res and the fact you get to choose all the parts to your specs (yes u can get parts that can perform better then AOI/CLC but doesnt mean they will and also doesnt mean u wont have leaks

idk why you guys seem to think AOI's or if u mod a AOI you think u will be more pron to leaks serious get a job go talk to a plumber if it has pipes and hoses u can take them off anything and reattach to anything jesus guys chill out

and here a bit more for ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMf6Zq-RAGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyUvCOP7x60&t=304s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SozhOTdFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2NN4goi2DI

http://www.swiftech.com/aio.aspx

now plz tell me why im wrong by saying its a AOI again? or why chopping it up is a bad idea for leaks? other then swiftech has a built in res theirs no diff as stated before hand yes some company's change parts and some re brand the same crap so really again how was i false for saying anything i have said?

it is a AOI
it will perform the same (as proven in stress test already)
it can be modded (same chance to leak as any custom loop or high end AOI)

so what did i say was wrong? plz enlighten me
post #16 of 43
I must have missed the memo on AIO vs CLC cooling because as far as I know they are the same thing. They are just different terms that different manufacturers used for identical systems when they were first being released.
CLC - closed loop cooler
AIO - All in one

Corsair and EVGA use the term Closed loop cooler
http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/hydro-series-h100-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler
https://www.evga.com/articles/01081/evga-clc-liquid-cpu-cooler/

while NZXT and Cooler Master use AIO for the same type of device.
http://blog.nzxt.com/2017/04/what-is-all-in-one-water-cooling-and-why-should-you-do-it/
http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Lines/cpu-liquid-cooler/

An article describing the Fractal design expandable coolers as CLC's - They also use copper rads by the way.
http://techreport.com/news/26581/fractal-design-new-liquid-coolers-are-expandable-refillable

An article using both terms in the same sentence to describe a device.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3164404/computers/evga-splashes-into-cpu-chilling-with-new-closed-loop-liquid-coolers.html

Some people may have added a distinction between the terms but it seems the industry hasn't.

The comparing of flow rates in CLC systems to the specs of a pump like the D5 is rather pointless exercise. Because CLC pumps are built onto their (Extremely restrictive) water blocks it gives a slightly false impression when you compare a 60L/h clc to the 1200L/h unrestricted flow rate of a d5.
CLC systems use components tuned to the low power of the pumps. So they deliberately use very high restriction cold plates and so on to maximise the possible performance.
Its much like the slightly old fashioned now European style low flow water cooling vs American and more common now high flow. Older European water blocks were very restrictive and loop flow rates of 2L/h and under were considered normal. Its different ways of getting very similar results.
Edited by Ashcroft - 9/24/17 at 2:12am
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

I must have missed the memo on AIO vs CLC cooling because as far as I know they are the same thing. They are just different terms that different manufacturers used for identical systems when they were first being released.
CLC - closed loop cooler
AIO - All in one

Corsair and EVGA use the term Closed loop cooler
http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/hydro-series-h100-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler
https://www.evga.com/articles/01081/evga-clc-liquid-cpu-cooler/

while NZXT and Cooler Master use AIO for the same type of device.
http://blog.nzxt.com/2017/04/what-is-all-in-one-water-cooling-and-why-should-you-do-it/
http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Lines/cpu-liquid-cooler/

An article describing the Fractal design expandable coolers as CLC's - They also use copper rads by the way.
http://techreport.com/news/26581/fractal-design-new-liquid-coolers-are-expandable-refillable

An article using both terms in the same sentence to describe a device.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3164404/computers/evga-splashes-into-cpu-chilling-with-new-closed-loop-liquid-coolers.html

Some people may have added a distinction between the terms but it seems the industry hasn't.
Yeah, you definitely missed it.
The are not different terms for same thing.

Industry is AIO for entire selection of All in One coolers, including CLCs.

Industry is CLCs are a sub-group of AIO group.

If you want to get industry technical, any liquid cooling loop that is not open to the outside air is a closed loop.
Open loop would have an unsecured opening in it .. are open systems.
Closed loops are closed systems.tongue.gif
For our purposes all CLC are AIOs, but not all AIO are CLC.

Swiftech Hxxx series, be quiet! Silent Loop series, Fractal Design Kelvin series and Alphacool Eisbaer are air AIOs, but not CLCs. They all have threaded fittings, copper radiator quality hose and a fill port.

All Asetek, CoolIT, Apaltek are in the CLC sub-group of AIOs.

The new Fractal Design Celcius is a hybird CLC with threaded fittings on aluminum radiator but not on pump block and no fill port.
Edited by doyll - 9/24/17 at 2:35am
post #18 of 43
Well that's exactly right all water cooling loops are closed loops, and all pre-filled systems are all in one. So its a distinction that doesn't make sense. Just like I see people describing closed loop coolers vs "open loop systems". In complex cooling systems the closed loop cools or heats the open through a heat exchanger. Like a solar hot water system for example, the open loop is the hot water taps.

Some people on this forum may have decided to use the terms for different things but I don't see that being the case everywhere.
There are examples of "Expandable CLC's" and "Expandable AIO's" if there was a difference one wouldn't exist and the other wouldn't need to be called expandable.
Edited by Ashcroft - 9/24/17 at 2:47am
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

Well that's exactly right all water cooling loops are closed loops, and all pre-filled systems are all in one. So its a distinction that doesn't make sense. Just like I see people describing closed loop coolers vs "open loop systems". In complex cooling systems the closed loop cools or heats the open through a heat exchanger. Like a solar hot water system for example, the open loop is the hot water taps.

Some people on this forum may have decided to use the terms for different things but I don't see that being the case everywhere.
There are examples of "Expandable CLC's" and "Expandable AIO's" if there was a difference one wouldn't exist and the other wouldn't need to be called expandable.
Makes perfect sense to me .. and anyone who has enough sense to understand the difference just as I explained it above. All CLCs are part of the AIO parent group, but not all AIOs are part of CLC sub-group.

Swiftech Hxxx series, be quiet! Silent Loop series, Fractal Design Kelvin series and Alphacool Eisbaer are air AIOs, but not CLCs. They all have threaded fittings, copper radiator quality hose and a fill port for adding/changing coolant.

All Asetek, CoolIT, Apaltek are in the CLC sub-group of AIOs. CLCs are factory sealed with no provision to expand or adding coolant.

It's not about what you see other people discribing. It's about what is real and what is made up. Lots of people claim their CLCs keep their system cooler than room ambinent and that they are so quiet they cannot be heard .. but that does not make it true or accurate. tongue.gif

No, solar hot water system is not open loop because it has hot water taps. doh.gif
.
Facts are all CLCs are a sub-group of AIOs .. and some AIOs are definitely not CLCs.
post #20 of 43
Well I tried. I thought I was even pretty polite about it but he appears to have made up his mind and is going to do what he wants to do.

To compare an asetek clc to a custom loop IS pretty ridiculous though.
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