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[Gizmodo] The EU Suppressed a 300-Page Study That Found Piracy Doesn’t Harm Sales

4K views 44 replies 33 participants last post by  jagdtigger 
#1 ·
Quote:
The Dutch firm Ecory was commissioned to research the impact of piracy for several months, eventually submitting a 304-page report to the EU in May 2015. The report concluded that: "In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect."
Quote:
The study has only come to light now because Julia Reda, a Member of the European Parliament representing the German Pirate Party, posted the report on her personal blog after she got ahold of a copy through an EU Freedom of Information access to document request.
Source: https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537
Full report: https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf

Alternative link for full report if link above is down: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hdygrjvcly9mmju/displacement_study.pdf?dl=0
 
#4 ·
News that doesn't fit their narrative suppressed? Makes you wonder what other agenda's they may have...
 
#5 ·
The PDF link is down, not sure, probably overwhelmed servers, would like to have a look at it just out of curiosity. Personally I think piracy is a far more complex theme then most people realize, It can have a positive impact or a negative impact depending on the situation, Netflix is a good example of how piracy can be a reflection of unavailability in a region, allot of shows could only be seen in some parts of the world tro piracy, Netflix bridged that gap, by offering said shows in region other wise cut out, and has a reflection piracy for said shows dropped dramatically in those areas.

Piracy isn't a problem that is gonna go away anytime soon and DRM is definitely not how to solve it, the industry has a whole still misses the point most of the time regarding piracy, and until they figure out how and why piracy is what it is, its a problem that won't go away.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon View Post

The PDF link is down, not sure, probably overwhelmed servers, would like to have a look at it just out of curiosity. Personally I think piracy is a far more complex theme then most people realize, It can have a positive impact or a negative impact depending on the situation, Netflix is a good example of how piracy can be a reflection of unavailability in a region, allot of shows could only be seen in some parts of the world tro piracy, Netflix bridged that gap, by offering said shows in region other wise cut out, and has a reflection piracy for said shows dropped dramatically in those areas.

Piracy isn't a problem that is gonna go away anytime soon and DRM is definitely not how to solve it, the industry has a whole still misses the point most of the time regarding piracy, and until they figure out how and why piracy is what it is, its a problem that won't go away.
Got ya
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hdygrjvcly9mmju/displacement_study.pdf?dl=0
 
#11 ·
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Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

It does not say that piracy does not hurt sales. It does say that there is no evidence of such thing. It is slightly different.

And it supports my theory all along, that you can't magically turn downloads into sales.
This, but even if it's inconclusive, after spending half a million on a report like this it should still be published.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

It does not say that piracy does not hurt sales. It does say that there is no evidence of such thing. It is slightly different.

And it supports my theory all along, that you can't magically turn downloads into sales.
I agree with you, but there could be something to say about the different effects of a normalized piracy culture. I'm sure there's a percentage of the paying customers that purchase products based integrally or in part on a moral obligation to do so. Papers like these could help further blur the lines and help make the rationalization of providing and/or downloading copyrighted content illegally easier and more justifiable.

Right now, nothing beats the convenience and promptness of platforms like Steam and Netflix, but we don't know how that could change if there were no enforcement of copyright laws. In fact, I have little doubt that such a case would be highly destructive, particularly to the gaming industry.
 
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#15 ·
I really like how Gaben said it and generally think is mostly the case.

"The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates." Gabe Newell
 
#16 ·
There is theory and then there is practice. Jerry Garcia of the Greatful Dead used download information to plan the locations of their concerts. His explanation was why worry about the location of pennies, when you could make dollars. Also have to remember, he rented the venues, managed the ticket sales. As he put it he did not have pay off the furniture maker 1st. And then there is the fact the Dead never played the same song the same way twice. It is possible he may have even paid the site for the location information. Artist that have control of their finances do make more off 10,000 ticket sales than they do off 100,000 album sales, much more to be made off tickets. Other artist have picked up on this. The guy that is complaining generally is not artist, and then there is Metallica.
 
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#17 ·
Do remember that not finding evidence to support the claim is very different than finding evidence to disprove the claim.

Though it does support the belief that piracy is often a problem with distribution and that, in general, pirates either wouldn't or couldn't buy the [whatever] in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst-san View Post

I really like how Gaben said it and generally think is mostly the case.

"The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates." Gabe Newell
Yeah that's the quote. I imagine that some of the people behind efforts cracking DRM are in it for the challenge or anarchy rather than any love of gaming.
thumb.gif
 
#18 ·
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Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Do remember that not finding evidence to support the claim is very different than finding evidence to disprove the claim.

Though it does support the belief that piracy is often a problem with distribution and that, in general, pirates either wouldn't or couldn't buy the [whatever] in the first place.
Yeah, that's the quote. I imagine that some of the people behind efforts cracking DRM are in it for the challenge or anarchy rather than any love of gaming.
thumb.gif
Oh, they most definitely are. I used to pirate things as a kid due to boredom, and just to see if I could. I mean I was also a gamer, but that wasn't the cause of me doing it. I only did it, to figure out if I could. Never released it to anyone but myself and my 2 best friends, as I didn't see the point. Though, I do agree that piracy does not equate to lost sales. Usually, the people who download pirated content do it because they would either

A) Never buy it in the first place, because they aren't sold by the idea/product. So they download as a way to demo it. Some actually turn around and buy the product after. Personally, know someone who does this, and if he likes the game, he will ALWAYS buy it right after. (In this case, it is not a lost sale, or sometimes even a gained sale)

B) Just don't have the means to use that content outside of piracy. Be it lack of money or access to a service that provides it. (In this case, it is not a lost sale, as they wouldn't be able to get the product anyway)

C) This is honestly by far the rare case, they pirate just because they don't want to pay, even if they have the means to do it. (This is the only case where I think it could be considered a lost sale.)
 
#20 ·
nice)) how to dedolarization continues. yes in eu over hafl legalizing "pirate" .

hollywood is just cia political tool: like captain america and 1000others moviees . ameerica must winn in all movies.

biggest polish/czech/romanian,Hun, torrent trackers was never closed or they never received a BIG fine. but every day people downloaded and share petabytes (!)(if i count all private or free trackers togh.) they have trafic numbers on servers))
and many of them have been in operation for over 15 years(!). owners just changed names...also some dont need change owner 10+years(!) ..So there will also 100% support local authorities like police or antipiracy.. just corrupt eu))
paradox some of them are on cloud on cloudflare or other usa located servers in usa near hollywood..
biggrin.gif
in CA

why so much tolerance? many years? tell me please..??

because european people have to be nailed to the head by propaganda from the usa/hollywood neocons. legally or even illegally.

kim dot com and snowden were right as ever... but even without them I know the truth.
 
#22 ·
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Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post

It can be argued that piracy doesn't harm sales because so much effort is put into fighting it. If the effort is ever let up, then harm will be done. This is the problem with observational studies, no control.
same could be said to the extent of expense in sustaining that resistance against piracy.
DRM development, copyright enforcement, etc. they all cost money to implement.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadaen Sylvermane View Post

Can't help if that is why they are supposedly losing money to piracy. Not the piracy itself but their misguided attempts to fight it, gotta cost a fortune to fight a losing battle.
well to them, fighting against the purported lost "$billions" due to piracy is worth the $millions it cost them to enforce.

though its doubtable if their "$billions" is actually as such, since they're counting their chickens before they hatch.
e.g. each piece of software is $100 and they lost 10 million copy to piracy, then they've lost $1billion to piracy.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWolf575 View Post

C) This is honestly by far the rare case, they pirate just because they don't want to pay, even if they have the means to do it. (This is the only case where I think it could be considered a lost sale.)
I reckon that's the most common case, not the rarest, at least in western nations where availability is usually not a problem. Free is always the best price. Why pay if you don't have to? As to whether it's a lost sale or not, that depends if the person values it enough to justify the cost if they couldn't get it for free. That's hard to determine.
 
#26 ·
That piracy barely harms sales has been known for years, I linked several research papers on my last discussion over this here on OCN. Still people has their mind set no matter how many data you give them, so whatever.

Now there are more papers reaching a similar conclusion, plus this 300 page report. Accept it or deny it but cut the crap. Piracy doesn't cost billions, barely any damage done.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.
 
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