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Z370 / Z390 VRM Discussion Thread - Page 3

post #21 of 1183
ASRock Extreme4
http://www.xfastest.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=201096&cp=1

ASROCK TAICHI
http://www.xfastest.com/thread-201072-1-1.html

the extreme 4 and taichi have got some strange power design to me...
these two boards both use ISL69138, wihch is a X+Y<=7 pwm chip.
both have got total 14 phases, 2 of them are vccsa and vccio, therefore 12 phases for cpu and igpu.

for the taichi, there are 12 little chips on the back of the pcb.
for the extreme4, there are 7 little chips on the back of the pcb.





ASROCK KILLER SLI
http://www.xfastest.com/thread-201097-1-1.html
Edited by asdkj1740 - 10/6/17 at 4:21am
post #22 of 1183
The thread on hardwareluxx is great, I hope it's going to be updated smile.gif
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Golden Ivy
(14 items)
 
HTPC
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770K @ 5 GHz Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 980 Ti @ 1580/2000 2x 8GB G.Skill @ 2400/CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
2x 850 Evo 500 GB Custom Water Windows 10 Pro Asus PG258Q 1080p/240Hz TN 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
Dell U2515H 1440p/60Hz AH-IPS Logitech G610 MX-Red + O-Rings EVGA SuperNova G2 850W Logitech G403 
AudioAudio
Asus Xonar Essence STX Philips Fidelio X1 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i3-4150T AsRock Z97E-ITX/ac 2x 4GB @ 1600/CL9 Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + 20TB NAS 
Optical DriveCoolingKeyboardPower
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post #23 of 1183
msi gaming pro z370m
using UP9508Q controller, but no way can its public datasheet be found.
the UP9508 (NON Q) public datasheet can be found, which is a 3+2 max mode design.
it is said that the UP9508Q is designed for 4+1 mode.
and the UP9508 has five pins for connecting five external mosfet drivers (or doublers).

there are four litte chips (FH UGF73N) found on msi gaming pro z370m, these should be drivers for the vcore??
and there are one extra little ic which is a doubler UP1961S, probably for the igpu.



3da59lzf
hdgobvaf
Edited by asdkj1740 - 10/6/17 at 3:35am
post #24 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdkj1740 View Post

msi gaming pro z370m
using UP9508Q controller, but no way can its public datasheet be found.
the UP9508 (NON Q) public datasheet can be found, which is a 3+2 max mode design.
it is said that the UP9508Q is designed for 4+1 mode.
and the UP9508 has five pins for connecting five external mosfet drivers (or doublers).

there are four litte chips (FH UGF73N) found on msi gaming pro z370m, these should be drivers for the vcore??
and there are one extra little ic which is a doubler UP1961S, probably for the igpu.
They will be doublers for the VCore.
The mosfets arent the crappy Nikos as on Z270, those are some high end onsemi mosfets.
LS should be NTMFS4C024N and HS NTMFS4C029N
post #25 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRMfreak View Post

They will be doublers for the VCore.
The mosfets arent the crappy Nikos as on Z270, those are some high end onsemi mosfets.
LS should be NTMFS4C024N and HS NTMFS4C029N
do you know the exact model name of this doubler?
post #26 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdkj1740 View Post

do you know the exact model name of this doubler?
probably uP1961S
post #27 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRMfreak View Post

probably uP1961S
um... i doubt that..
why dont simply use the same doubler chip of igpu on the vcore..

and those are not from onsemiconductor, but 69, namely ubiq.
Edited by asdkj1740 - 10/6/17 at 7:50am
post #28 of 1183
Thread Starter 
@αC: Impressive post, awesome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

My guess is 4+3 PWM controller doubled to 8+6 , I'm not sure why they wrote 12 phases unless it is 6+2 doubled to 12+2

I'd guess it's a 8+4+1+1 since I can't find any other converters for VCCIO and VCCSA but that wouldn't fit the doubler sheme. headscratch.gif

Edit: I'm going to update this post and the hardwareluxx list as soon as I can but atm I'm quite busy and there's a huge amount of info that needs to be added.

Edit2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

MSI Z370 Pro Carbon using Onsemi
https://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/ryan-martin/msi-z370-gaming-pro-carbon-ac-motherboard-review/3/
" There are 12 NTMFS4C024N and 10 NTMFS4C029N MOSFET units on the high- and low-side, respectively, closely located to the CPU power delivery system, both provided by ON Semiconductor."

back has 3 doublers I think
Datasheets: http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NTMFS4C024N , http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NTMFS4C029N

Due to mosfet count per phase I'd expect this to run in 4+1 mode with one doubler used for VCCGT (can be seen in the picture near the inductor).
I'd agree with asdkj1740's interpretation of the cheap MSI design.

Edit3: I'm drowning in Reviews!
http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=243608&sid=5953aa46427649d74420df2cd02cb957
-> Intersil drivers on the backside of the Taichi:

I still don't get how this design works. headscratch.gif

http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=243595&sid=5953aa46427649d74420df2cd02cb957
http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=243584&sid=5953aa46427649d74420df2cd02cb957
https://www.chiphell.com/article-18765-1.html
https://www.overclockers.ua/motherboard/asus-rog-strix-z370-e-gaming/
Edited by br0da - 10/6/17 at 10:21am
post #29 of 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyther View Post

I dont know a whole lot about VRM, but i was looking at maybe getting this board and trying to get a decent OC. what does it VRM look like, also looks like this board uses alot more power then other z370s

IMHO the Taichi is the same price and comes with wifi + audio AMP and supposedly better VRM components (if it's the Fairchild FDPC5030SG ones as on Fatal1ty pro)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdkj1740 View Post

ASRock Extreme4
http://www.xfastest.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=201096&cp=1

ASROCK TAICHI
http://www.xfastest.com/thread-201072-1-1.html

the extreme 4 and taichi have got some strange power design to me...
these two boards both use ISL69138, wihch is a X+Y<=7 pwm chip.
both have got total 14 phases, 2 of them are vccsa and vccio, therefore 12 phases for cpu and igpu.

for the taichi, there are 12 little chips on the back of the pcb.
for the extreme4, there are 7 little chips on the back of the pcb.





ASROCK KILLER SLI
http://www.xfastest.com/thread-201097-1-1.html

Back of the board has doublers.

Also this confirms the Killer SLI is bad. It doesn't even have USB 3.1 gen2 , dual BIOS, or ALC1220, so for the $10 price difference to the Extreme4 it is really bad.

The VRM is at least $20 upgrade , audio is minimal (maybe $10) , USB 3.1 probably $15-20 based on add-in card pricing.

The Taichi is using Fairchild FDPC5030SG parts while the Extreme4 looks to use Sinopower SM7341EH.

FAIRCHILD http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=FDPC5030SG
Channel 1
RDS(on) = 5.0mΩ @ V_GS = 10V , I_D = 17A
RDS(on) = 6.5mΩ @ V_GS = 4.5V , I_D = 14A
2ns rise time (10ns max), 2ns fall time (10ns max)
Channel 2
2.4mΩ @ V_GS = 10V , I_D = 25A
3.0mΩ @ V_GS = 4.5V , I_D = 22A
4ns rise time (10ns max) , 3ns fall time (10ns max)

SINOPOWER SM7341EH www.sinopowersemi.com/temp/SM7341EHKP_datasheet.pdf
Channel 1
30V/24A,
RDS(ON) = 3.9mΩ (max.) @ V_GS = 10V
RDS(ON) = 6.5mΩ (max.) @ V_GS = 4.5V
9.6ns rise time, 19ns fall time
Channel 2
30V/44A,
RDS(ON) = 1.2mΩ (max.) @ V_GS =10V <--- the marketing number comes from here
RDS(ON) = 2mΩ (max.) @ V_GS =4.5V
14ns rise time, 25ns fall time

asdkj1740 , the ubiq parts might be what are used on MSI GPUs.
QN3101 high side , QN3107 low side seems to be what is on Zotac's GTX 1080 Ti amp
Edited by AlphaC - 10/6/17 at 11:11am
post #30 of 1183
exactly, i have no idea why on the back of the taichi pcb there are 12 little ic which seem to be all drivers...

https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/intersil/documents/isl6/isl6596.pdf
should be this model..
it is just a driver, not a doubler, i guess...
although it states that it can driver two dual n channel mosfet, there are two pin (UGATE (Pin 1) & LGATE (Pin 5)) for high side and low side respectively.

the question then is, where the f are those doublers! there is no way for that pwm controller to drive true 8+4 phases.
Edited by asdkj1740 - 10/6/17 at 11:50am
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